Not once, but twice in relatively quick succession, Unlocke observed tonight that there was a lot of catching up to do. He wasn’t kidding. “The Last Recruit” moved briskly, touched on a myriad of mysteries, and served up more explosions and twists. But the delicate balance of plot and character definitely felt askew, and along with all the forward velocity, there were moments that seemed to lose traction. At the end of last week’s episode, we felt the stage was set for the final sprint. Tonight’s tale had a lot of flash, but it still feels like we’re waiting for the big show. And with a week off before the next new episode, “The Last Recruit” definitely left us wanting more.
In the flash-sideways, the inevitable collision of our wayward survivors was aggressively accelerated. Sun makes her connection with the island world when she spots Locke on the next gurney. And Jack gets his hands on Locke’s dural sack without a consult. And by the close of our multi-faceted tour of Los Angeles, Kate, Sawyer, Miles, Sayid, Jin, Sun, Jack, Claire, Desmond, Locke, and Ben are clearly interconnected. But can they all be unified and even embark on a plan in the few hours ahead?
I did like Jack’s renewed connection with David, as well as the interplay between cop Sawyer and fugitive Kate, perhaps the strongest character moments in the episode. Seeing Ilana turn up as a lawyer the week after she was blown up on the island was fun, but It still doesn’t make up for her untimely end. Desmond’s actions are again curious, though. Why was he going to see a lawyer? At first we guessed it was just a ruse to point Claire toward Jack, drawn from post-flash omniscience. But he knew Ilana, and had an appointment. Perhaps she’s just corporation counsel for Widmore Industries?
On the island, our unified camp of survivors doesn’t last long, as Sawyer executes his plan and separates Unlocke from several of his precious candidates. It serves the Man in Black right for entrusting a key part of his plan to a con man. Of course, on “LOST,” it can’t be that simple, and after another long look at the ocean, Jack decides that his work’s not done, and jumps overboard. As soon as he returns to the island, Unlocke is there to claim him.
Is Jack “The Last Recruit”? He seems pretty set on confounding Unlocke, but he is also told twice that he’s already “with” him. Claire told Jack that his mistake was letting Unlocke speak. And after Unlocke rescues a dazed Jack from a huge explosion — reminiscent of Claire’s crossing over in New Otherton — he also tells Jack, “You’re with me, now.” I’m wondering if Unlocke is now back to square one… or if there’s a chance that Jack was really the only candidate he needed.
In terms of answers, Unlocke confirms to Jack that he had appeared as Christian Shephard soon after the crash. As with the explanation of the whispers last week, though, the answer seems to bring more questions. Was the Man In Black portraying Christian in Jacob’s cabin? (Probably.) Visiting Jack off the island? (Probably not?) Telling Locke to turn the donkey wheel? (Probably.) Talking to Sun and Frank about the DHARMA Initiative? (Probably not, since at the same time, the Man In Black was Unlocke with the Ajira crew, and supposedly “stuck” in that form.) And a few weeks ago, it seemed significant that Claire described her father and her “friend” as two separate entities. Did she just not know she was in the middle of a puppet show?
And while Unlocke’s darker nature seems even more pronounced now, I’m struck by what he told Jack: he appeared as his father to lead him to water. In retrospect, it does seem to be what the vision accomplished way back in Season 1. And Unlocke also brought water and food to Richard at the Black Rock. Of course, he wanted something from Richard, and still wants something from Jack. But I found the tiny shard of implied benevolence interesting.
Jack was trapped on the island before he even got there? Absolutely. All the Man in Black wanted to do was help them leave? I’m not sure. I think Jack is right to question why he wants them gone, and just how their continued presence is a threat.
While Sawyer was ready to write off Claire and Sayid, both seemed to get a glimmer of hope tonight. Claire’s homicidal urges toward Kate seemed to subside (again) as she was welcomed aboard the escape boat, and Sayid’s hesitation after returning to Locke suggests that talking to Desmond may have reawakened some humanity within him.
Sayid’s character is definitely an empty one now, with even Sawyer dismissing him as a zombie. We’re hoping for a tragic and sad end, or a heroic final turn, but this blank-faced moping around has got to stop. At least Hurley suggests that redemption is possible, invoking what seems to be a contractually obligated “Star Wars” reference. (A reference that pop-culture wise-ass Sawyer inexplicably doesn’t recognize.) Anakin Skywalker turned against his dark lord in a climactic battle, so perhaps Sayid will do the same.
And, yes, at long last, Sun and Jin were reunited. As we’d feared, the overextended separation and the episode’s rushed pace robbed the moment of much of its dramatic power. Actually, the portable sonic fence on the beach seemed to have been purposely situated between them as they ran toward each other, and we were half expecting there to be yet another cheesy contrivance to keep them apart one more week. Fortunately, they embraced and declared their love… but the writers let Lapitas channel David Caruso with a smirking one-liner that deflated whatever emotional power was left in the scene.
Why did Widmore call off the deal with Sawyer? Why does anyone on Team Widmore think missiles are an effective weapon against Unlocke? Where has the spirit of Jacob been all this time, and what is Unlocke’s ultimate plan? And how are we going to survive two weeks before getting our next shot at answers?
- The conversation between Unlocke and Jack was a powerful one. When Unlocke said John Locke was stupid, and a sucker, at first I felt it was just adding insult to injury when it came to one of the most interesting and promising characters on “LOST.” But then I started to think (or hope) that they were actually setting John Locke up to be vindicated somehow. I hope so.
- Off the island, we learn that Locke’s wheelchair actually saved his life. Jen said it reminded her of how losing his kidney saved his life when he was shot by Ben.
- Flash-sideways Kate emphatically insists she’s innocent. And if the flash-sideways are going to ultimately suggest happier lives for our survivors, it would make sense that she is. Notice that Sawyer offers Kate an apple in the police station. A reference to Eve and the Garden of Eden? Or is it just an apple?
- Sawyer’s observation that it’s “weird” how he and Kate ended up crossing each others paths reminded us of Jack remarking to Kate in “316” that it was “crazy” to see that they were all back together on an airplane.
- We loved how cool Unlocke was when the first warning missile struck in the jungle. The huge explosion behind his unflinching figure called to mind the moment he blew up the submarine in Season 3.
- Zoe’s conversation with Unlocke, in which Unlocke says he has no idea what she’s talking about, is a direct mirror of the conversation Unlocke has with Widmore over a similar situation in “The Package.”
- Miles says his last name is Straum. So even though he’s got a good relationship with his museum-managing dad, Dr. Chang, there’s still a kink or two in that family tree.
- Ilana’s last name is Verdanski. Couldn’t think of how that might be significant, if only in comparison to Radzinski and Minkowski.
- Hurley says, “People are trying to kill us again.” Just like old times.
- Sawyer gets of at least one notable nickname: Chesty. It was funny how he referred to Lapitas as a guy who looked like he stepped out of a Burt Reynold’s movie… but it was an unusually clunky line of dialogue where “the pilot” probably would have sufficed.
- Locations: The office building where Claire, Desmond, Jack, David, and Ilana came together was Pauahi Tower in downtown Honolulu. The hospital where Sun and Jin and Jack and Locke turned up was the Rehab Hospital of the Pacific (though I think the ambulance bay and emergency entrance was Kuakini Hospital). The house where Sayid was captured by Sawyer and Miles is on Waiohinu Drive in Kahala. The “old pier” where Jack and his group boarded the Elizabeth was Coconut Island in Kaneohe Bay.
How did you like “The Last Recruit”? Favorite moments? New theories? Please comment below and join the conversation. You can also call and leave a brief (ideally, one-minute long) message on the LOSTLine at (815) 310-0808, or email us at lost@hawaiiup.com.
fyi – anyone interested should note Netflix offers season 5 in their streaming feed – which you can watch on your computer, thru Xbox, Wii and other such devices.
@ LReene – what’s a reasonable Deadline for watching those two epi’s? so we can all meet here to discuss? Maybe Ryan & Jen will use the discussion for a podcast between this epi and next? (Hint,Hint) {I know you two deserve a break, we listeners are just greedy 😉 , at least I am}
@ Greenberry – please, please keep this blog politic-free 😉
@Bonita – my mom is not coming to my home, which is a good thing. I love her but can’t live with her. She’s lives a half mile away so I am sure I’ll be over there a lot. It is a pretty ovewhelming thought right now. She now has to use a walker and a wheelchair but can live alone. Last Christmas she was perfectly fine, it’s been a difficult winter. Like I said before my big escape is Lost, probably because it kept my mind occupied. Which is why you all see me on this board so much. It’s fun, keeps me busy and gives me an excuse to procrastinate my housework. haha!
@Bonita: Dick Gentry was a holistic detective… Holistic is the H of D.H.A.R.M.A. It a pseudo science thing that mean that everything in the world is connected… Those book are just really fun! But the Hitchhiker’s the best!!! 42!!!!
I’m in ~ first two epis it is
no prob ~ just trying to deepen the topic of evil ~ will keep it LOST-specific
@gene e — re: the chemical compound in the temple pool… it’s H2O mixed with C7H8N4O2 (theobromine), which also happens to be the main ingredient in your fudge formula. Its chemical structure is very similar to caffeine, thus the pool’s life-giving qualities.
@Bonita: I think we should talk about other episode recap AFTER this week recap, so we can start by Sunday I guess.
Ok another Star Trek theory (I said I was rewatching the Next Gen):
The last weapon build by the Vulcan worked on anyone who had hate or fear in they mind… Sounds like mib to me! That’s why Desmond is such a problem and sounds so “Jacob like”. Jacob could manage with mib because as Ben said “I seriously doubt that Jacob was ever confused”… I seriously doubt any of our losties going this way unless Jack finally succed to “fix” himself.
@Bonita in Atlanta, @greenberry, @others. – Oh My! I feel like I’ve opened up a Pandora’s Box here. Ryan & Jen, PLEASE don’t be mad at me 🙂 (It would be great though if an additional podcast could be done for this “rewatch project” LOL).
As for timeline Bonita, I’m open. After all of this discussion, I will probably have watched them again several times by the time next Tuesday evening rolls around. I’ll let someone else set the time schedule.
But all the discussion above does remind me of something else. One of the classes that were part of the “LOST University” study courses, “I’m Right, You’re Wrong – The Us vs. Them Mentality”. The official course description says “This course examines the complex relationship between Right vs. Wrong, Us vs. Them, and Good vs. Evil, and applies it to both LOST and the real world.” For anyone interested, a snippet of the course video can be found at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjEztKVT6ME Must warn you though that it only scratches the surface of the full course video. Well worth watching if you can get your hands on a Season 5 Blu-Ray set (especially in light of all the good vs evil discussion).
@LReene ~ Re: the youtube snippet ~ very cool! After my post above where I “broke the rules,” I am determined to be on my best behavior (we’ll see how long that lasts ~ lol)
Although I still think the topic of evil is super interesting, I will instead focus on the meaning of truth and growth and goodness, and how those things become realized in our fabulous LOST show and characters.
@greenberry – Glad you found the youtube snippet interesting. I personally found the entire LOST University experience to be very enlightening and worth the price of the Blu-Ray set itself. I am also convinced that once we see the finaly episode, a lot of the “meat” of the LU classes will make a whole lot more sense.
@Steven in Bathurst: No, I guess “charade” is too strong a word, but I definitely feel the writers milked it more than was needed to get us to a point that we were already at last season: Jack vs. Locke (though in this case it’s UnLocke). I really didn’t like the “good vs. bad” theme (and call it light vs. dark, bad vs. unbad. whatever, it’s all the same thematically) because I thought it insultingly oversimplified characters that had been lovingly crafted to be anything but simple over the course of 5 seasons. Part of the strength of Lost was/is the writer’s ability to give us characters that defy pat judgements (i.e. he’s good, she’s bad) and I feel like we just spent half a season putting our losties in just those sorts of catagories that Lost has craftily avoided!
So, yeah, now we’re back where we started in a way, and I’m happy with that, though I can’t help but wonder what it was all for. Was it just an elaborate red herring plotwise? Sure, we are now willing to dismiss seasons of evil manipulations and believe that Ben was just a sad, misunderstood geek all that time and Sayid is a zombie, Desmond can cross realities as a result of exposure to electro magnetism and Claire has gone a bit murdeous but the rest of our Losties, for all of their hand wringing and side choosing, are unchanged in character and motivation.
I kind of hope that the resolution of Lost stays faithful to their previous efforts to conciously and deftly blur the lines between right and wrong and good and bad rather than taking the comic book approach and turning the ending into a smack down between evil and unevil. That’s all I’m sayin’.
@KK – Thanks! Got the lab boys working on it now! Think of what this will do for those ever-dying houseplants! Science is TRULY amazing!
@LReene: Don’t get me started on the Lost University! I bought the french Blu-Ray and we don’t have access to it! Even if it is written on the boxset!
Now you make me want to see it even more… especially the pseudo science and pseudo philosophy parts!
@Yann – REALLY sorry to hear about the luck you had with the LU on Blu-Ray.
If they put the same files on the French disc that they did on the US disc, you can still watch almost all the videos though even if the LU doesn’t work. While this forum probably isn’t the place to explain it all, if you look me up on Facebook and send me a message, I’ll explain how.
Lyle
@LReene – I have the blu-ray set and haven’t watched it yet. I guess I know what I’ll be doing in place of Lost this week. Watching some of the extras along with the first two episodes.
@Gene e – you need the hourglass too!! Without that you can’t judge how long you must drown your subjects, err, I mean houseplants.
Wow! just got back from the mechanics shop. I thought for a minute there I was gonna have to spring for a new flux capacitor, turns out it was the Mr. FUSION. Thanks to all those that prayed. And those who tuned with the harmonic convergence, thank you. Those who hugged a tree, thanks. Those who meditated upon my plight, I salute you. Those that observed a minute of silence, uh,… well, thanks to all. Now, back to the future.
@Gene e- I must apologize. Last week when I posted my grumpy post I thought you were making fun of the board, I didn’t realize you were joking at first. Sometimes in print things come out differently than we mean them too. Since that post I have gotten your sense of humor. I realize you weren’t insulting us. It takes all kinds here, some like the science, some like the characters, some the interaction, some the mythology, religion etc. You all know what side I am on. The confused one. But hey I try. I like the mythology and the characters and the mystical parts. I am not as big on science and religion driving the plotlines. I still think that making it all about Jacob wasn’t fair since he wasn’t a big part of the plot line. I find the MIB a lot more interesting than Jacob.
@Carol from Boston – Thanks. Though I don’t recall the post. (I was taken to Anchorhead and had my memory erased.)
I think the main difference is that I’ll let you all have your opinions. I’m not gonna slam you. I’m not here to sway anyone. Or call anyone stupid or unenlightened. I’m not recruiting. Besides, I’ve just made a deal that will keep the Empire out of here forever.
Soren Kierkegaard.
Philosopher to THE STAR.
That’s right. Read it and weep.
@ lost in brooklyn ~ good post above… I think I am coming to feel this way too: that good vs. bad is overly simplistic and that our Losties deserve better than to be convinced of, and/or forced to have allegiance with ‘sides’
I still see no good in MIB, but because of you all will be watching more carefully now
I liked the episode, but I have to agree with a lot of you it really felt rushed to me. Especially long awaited the reunion of Sun and Jin. I was a little disappointed and a little concerned the way Jin said we’ll never be apart again. I just hope it’s not a short-lived reunion. I just want them to have some kind of happy ending. No way did Sayid kill Desmond. It wouldn’t make sense to bring Desmond back just to kill him. Sayid is going to redeem himself in some way and soon. When Hurley mentioned Anakin I was totally convinced it was possible. Desmond really came across as Jacob-like the way he tried to reason with Sayid. And we saw some of the old Claire again. My heart broke for her how abandoned she felt. I don’t necessarily trust what MIB says and I have doubts as far as getting “answers” from him. If it’s true that he was Jack’s father on the island – who was his father off the island? Jacob? Or the ghost of Jack’s father? I hope we get an answer. I just wish there were 10 more episodes!
I don’t think I’ve seen this yet, so…
Is there any significance to Sun not being able to speak with UnLocke, since she had lost her voice? Unlocke did speak TO her, but she wrote back 😉
There’s an ongoing theme of not speaking with him, starting back with Sayid being sent off by Dogen with the knife. Will not being able to converse with UnLocke give Sun any special role in the future?
I don’t think I’ve seen this yet, so…
Is there any significance to Sun not being able to speak with UnLocke, since she had lost her voice? Unlocke did speak TO her, but she wrote back 😉
There’s an ongoing theme of not speaking with him, starting back with Sayid being sent off by Dogen with the knife. Will not being able to converse with UnLocke give Sun any special role in the future?
“Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.†– Soren Kierkegaard.
Wow! Sounds like ol’ Soren is a lost fan!
UPDATE!
“Lost can only be understood backwards; but it must be viewed flashforwards.” – Gene E.
(Sorry! All the good ones are taken)
How come Sawyer doesn’t know who Anikin is and he is the one who has all of the nicknames?
I’m sure he knows who Jabba is – he’s use it against Hurley before 🙂
Check out who has a Twitter account!!! FUNNY.
http://www.twitter.com/smokieinblack
The biggest mystery to me still is what happened to Sayid? One of the rules is “Dead is dead” and the writers are pretty good about sticking to them. It really doesn’t make sense that Man in Black can bring back the dead and he ONLY brings back Sayid. I smell a scam. Man in Black knows the score and is manipulating Sayid. Desmond knows EVERYTHING now and he told Sayid about the scam. So what is it? Well, I only see one solution to this puzzle using information already provided in the series. Anyone remember a certain spider venom that can paralyze a person so that anyone would THINK you were dead…?
I finally watched “The Last Recruit” for a 2nd time today. 2 things: 1. I picked up on the voice-over that many people discussed above, when Locke says “Then do what I said.” Crazy! 2. How many more times is Locke going to say, “Here we go,” or “The war is here,” or things along those lines that signify the battle has arrived. For a minute, I thought I was in my flashsideways experiencing a bleed-over from my original timeline…
@LReene: The thing is those video are not on the BD but online and accessible with BD live… but don’t worry I am sure I will find a way to watch them too.
(Sorry about all the non-appropriet posts Ryan… the forward cabin will not be easy to make this week, good luck)
I watched it again, too. KK, that’s a good observation, that Locke says, “OK, here we go” or something to that effect, yet again. Tiresome.
I was just astonished that the writers have the very personification of the smoke monster directly ask Jack, “What do you want to ask me?” – drum roll ask anything you want, I will answer, here you go, what do you want to know, ask, ask now – and Jack replies with, did you masquerade as my dead father? Well, the narrative wants the knot of Jack with his father to be that significant, that much a center for Jack’s consciousness. Out of all the questions he could have asked.
We have to reevaluate all the back story and all the interaction of Jack with his father and all the references to his father, such as the life he leads with his son David and the shoes Jack puts on Locke’s body, his father’s shoes that he gives to Locke. These are the most important things to Jack, his ideas, memories and judgments that link him to his father.
In my recent episode blog posts i’ve been talking about the fact that the flash-sideways world feels very much like it might be the result of a wish, or a pact. It’s reminded me of that cliche “deal with the devil” or genie wish, asking for something but not getting it in the way you expect. Asking to be a millionaire – becoming a drug baron.
In the flash-sideways it seems like the Losties are getting what they wanted:
* Desmond is liked and valued by Whidmore.
* Hurley is very lucky.
* Kate didn’t kill her father.
* Ben’s father doesn’t hate him.
* Locke is married to the woman he loved.
But none of these things seem to be working out.
* Desmond never met Penny.
* Hurley never reunited with his father (guess).
* Kate killed someone else instead.
* Ben never got a position of power.
Could it be that the flash-sideways has indeed come about because someone has made a wish, or a pact? To give them all what they wanted.
We’ve seen Fake-Locke make promises like that, he told Sayid that he’d bring Nadia back. So what if someone’s made a deal with Fake-Locke?
Another thing. At the end of the episode we possibly see Jack dying in the explosion, and coming back to life. He’s got an injury on his neck which is consistent with the injury he spotted in the mirror back in episode one of this season. So I’m wondering – what if everyone in the flash-sideways is dead? What if someone made a deal to bring them all back and give them what they wanted?
—
aaron in scotland
@Lrenee and @Greenberry
The Jack and Locke interplay has always been an interesting debate “man of faith vs man of science” I promised everyone I’d get them off the island vs. the island is our destiny we have a purpose, even Locke as Jeremy Bentham and his note to Jack from beyond the grave. The debate about pushing the button and faith.
We all have light and dark, or two wolves fighting within us – the one who lives is the one we feed. So I think our characters are facing this battle and MIB is trying to use our characters to reach his ultimate purpose. Maybe that is as simple as everyone being dead or on his side, so there is no replacement for Jacob.
But looking back at how surprised I was when Ben strangled Locke – I can honestly say if the writers take Jack one way or the other, I could likely be just as surprised.
I think MIB convinced Ben to purge the dharma people – he used a vision of his mother from the other side of the sonic fence, to make him feel even more isolated from his father and the others – Annie was his friend, and he could have found peace with her and others like her.
Richard encounters young Ben in the jungle and is told he’s seen the ghost of his mother. Richard also wants the dharma people gone – I don’t think this means he’s on team MIB, I think he’s just feeling threatened by the dharma people. They represent technology, electricity, etc – an anathema (George Costanza) to Jacob.
Years later Richard wants to help Locke supplant Ben, Ben has lead the others in a direction away from Jacob. Is that a good or evil decision – or simply one of survival?
What do our the leader/would be leader characters want from the island?
Locke – Healed by the island (or maybe from Jack in the FSW?) wants his life to have purpose
Ben – Wants to be with his Mother – be loved
Widmore – Not sure – has something to do maybe with the two women he loved
Jack – Wants to be with his Father – be loved – wants to know his purpose in life
It seems like 3 of 4 of them were corrupted by power, and began to think of their own purposes in an end justifies the means sort of way. Locke threw a dagger into Naomi’s back, Ben – you pick lol, Widmore not sure of the backstory.
But Jack hasn’t been corrupted yet right?
UnLocke tells Jack that he could only show up as Locke after the real Locke died – which was a couple of week, it seems, ago. But Claire indicates that the reason she follows Locke is because “he’s the only one who didn’t abandon me,” which implies that UnLocke has been around for the 3 years she’s been on the island. Who’s lying? (or just a big continuity mistake?)
Rewatching the man behind the curtain, it’s nice to finally understand that the scene in the cabin with ben talking to an empty rocking chair and then flashes and fire and rocking chair movement and a figure appearing in the chair seem to be all part of a rouse on Ben’s part to see what Locke knows about the island and about Jacob and why he’s able to walk now, before killing him off and leaving him for dead in the pit with Horace and the other dharmas.
The man in the rocking chair even appears to be wearing the others “uniform” the brown/red cloth outfit that looks hand woven.
I hope some of the other answers we’re looking for become this settled in future – someone mention backwards wet talking Walt, and we keep going back and foth on Christian appearing just for a moment to Michael on the freighter and Jack in his hospital office………but for God’s sake, Jack moments before seeing Christian had to reset a SMOKE alarm……then asks his colleauge in the next moment for a prescription…….if that doesn’t sound like evidence of and the ultimate goal of MIB to get Jack and the others back to the island, I don’t know what is ; ).
@ivasusan – Claire says she followed Locke because he’s the only one who abandoned her – what she means is she followed the MIB – who for her took on the form of Christian Shephard, when he led her off into the jungle at night leaving Sawyer Miles and the baby. We also saw her in the cabin (Cabin fever) sitting comfortably with Christian Shephard when they greet Locke.
We’re trying to figure out if she died in the rubble of the house when the freighties attacked, or if she was just infected. Miles said she looked funny and asked if he could hold Aaron, and he has something of a sixth sense. Days later she wanders off leaving her baby behind, and after a period of time MIB has her convinced that everyone abandoned her.
Nice to see there’s redemption possible for her, just like for Rousseau, Ben, Sayid and Sawyer.
@ScottB in DC – Absolutely great thoughts all the way around, and I honestly can’t say I disagree with you on any of your points. At this time I’m still sticking with my new found theory though, right or wrong.
@Yann – Again, if the French discs are put together like the US discs, the LU class videos are there. Disc 5/BDMV/Stream/00787.m2ts – 00807.m2ts 00808 appears to go along with the videos also but is something written in what appears to be French. Since I don’t speak/read/or write French, I can’t tell you what it says.
@Ryan & Jen – Sorry if the above is not proper discussion for the board. Just trying to help Yann out so he can enjoy what he purchased like the rest of us 🙂
@ Aaron ~ Good point that the alt universe seems improved with a (negative) twist — another example: Sawyer is a cop rather than a con man, but does he have his daughter Clementine anymore? Prob not ~ Hmm… are they all dead? I hope not.
@ Scott B ~ faith vs. science or faith vs. doubt — as you note, Locke previously had faith but got corrupted (doubted?) and taken over by MIB, where as Jack initially doubted his purpose but now has faith in his purpose and at this point is still uncorrupted and pure
@Aaron – I definitely think you are on to something with the “wishes gone bad” theory. Not sure how it will all fit in, but it all sure sounds that way to me also.
@Aaron, Ilike what you say. I thought about the idea of a deal between someone and maybe Jacob or Smokey but I don’t think we’re seeing what they really wanted in the flash sideways because, for example, why on Earth would Sawyer wanted his parents to be death? I mean, if a character was in the Oceanic 815 for a purpose (kill Anthony Cooper, go to LA to give your kid in adoption, being taken to jail because of a murder…) if someone had made a pact their lives, I guess, would be better than we are seeing.
I don’t think they’re dead in the sideways either, that would be weird and it would also mean there’s no hope for our losties.
@lavasusan Claire said to Jin about her last three years on the Island she was with her dad and with her friend. This was Smokey, but does Claire know both were the same thing?
@ScottB in DC if you’re right, the MIB needed the Oceanic 6 to go back to the Island right? But, if he can’t leave the Island as he told Sawyer, how can he appear outside it?
Maybe he can travel in some way? Because that’s another interesting point, how could Jacob leave the Island in different years? I doubt he took the Dharma submarine.
And I hope we finally know what’s going on betwen Ben and Widmore because it looks like they have to follow the same rules as both Jacob and the MIB. Ben and Widmore can’t kill each other.
The sides that have been drawn seem to be the living against the dead. Smokey is dead and wants to leave the island (release all the dead souls onto the world including his own) Jacob, the living, keeps the cork in the bottle. “As long as I’m alive you’ll never leave this island”.
Claire died in the barracks when it was blown up and now goes with smokey. Sayid died and then returns to go with smokey. Jack was just killed by the explosion on the beach and will be returned by smokey.
Jacob can make you live forever but smokey can return the dead to some form of life, for a price.
This island is the closest the dead can come to life again. Unless smokey can uncork the bottle and allow all hell to break loose.
Rewatching the episode last night, at the moment after MiL asked Sayid if he had killed Desmond, MiL stares into Sayid’s eyes and cocks his head to the side a bit. I had to laugh because it so reminded me of Larry David’s staring contests on Curb Your Enthusiasm when he is trying to tell if someone is lying or not. I know someone in power likes the show ’cause that’s how they got Jorge Garcia, I wonder if it was intentional.
I had another thought last night. Is it possible that Sun lost the ability to speak English at the moment she was shot in the Flash Sideways?
I’m gonna point my mobile browser into the collective consciousness of Wiki-Googlia and pull out some kinda cosmic intellectual whoop-@$$!
@ Amaia ~ lol re: Jacob and the dharma submarine
@ Stephen ~ lol re: ‘Curb’ and the staring contest — love that show
love all the laughs and levity on this board
@ Michael and LReene ~ Noooo I don’t want Jack to be taken over by Smokey/MIB, unless he makes it a new and improved version — GO JACK
And what about Daniel? He says the alt universe is not the way things are supposed to be… so now what?! —— oy
@MichaelfromIreland, i didn’t see if anyone tried to answer your questions, yet. anyway, what harm can a second opinion be?
1) the biggest difference would be that Sayid DIED. Claire did not, and went willingly-?- into whatever she’s in now. i think she’s alive but very crazy. when Sayid died, that gave the feeling that his body was now empty, his spirit gone, so MIB or someone could step into it and take over. but with all the smirks and half-truths he’s been showing, maybe he’s not dead?
2) i’ve always felt that the Christian Shepard that we’ve seen on the island is really a personafication of the spirit of the Island. friends have been laughing at me since the 3rd season, talking about the spirit of the island. probably the same thing we saw in Jack’s office.
3) no idea.
4)as for your bus-ride, these posts will still be online. does anyone really think that all of our questions will be answered? especially in the dwindling time left? really?
to quote some great folks, “what a long strange trip it’s been.” but it would be okay with me if the show ran for another six seasons.
@aaron r
do we know for a fact that Claire didn’t die? I’m of the opinion that she died when she was in the hut hit by the rocket.
@michael – that’s a great theory………………all hell breaking loose, well said
@harold – “what do you want to ask me” as iconic as “don’t tell me what I can’t do!”
@aaron – great theory about the flash sideways, I like the ramifications on the who died theory.
But – I’m still confused about….
In ab eterno MIB touches Richard in the same way Jacob touched Locke after his 8 story fall – both touches seemed like they were life giving.
Sayid is drowned in the pool even though “the waters are no longer clear”, so young Ben was brought back in a pool with clear waters? Here’s dark and light waters doing healing.
There’s redemption (it seems for Sayid) so even if MIB brings you back you still have freewill?
Ben killed Jacob – Jacob touched Ben as he was dying, did that change Ben and allow him to turn away from MIB?
Why did Jacob’s body burn completely to ashes in the fire? Will he rise again like a phoenix, in the form of the little boy we keep seeing?
how about the funniest lines in the history of the show?
I vote for Rose looking Jack square in the eye and stating “If you say we can either live together or die alone Jack, I swear I’m going to punch you in the mouth!” Jack smiling and saying “fair enough, Rose”.
Everyone trying to figure out what to get from Sawyer if he loses at ping pong, and Sun coming up with “no nicknames – for one week!” then after the loss Sawyer begins to say nice game (insert nickname) and Hurley say no-way dude, you can call me Hugo if you like……………sawyer replies bite me…
Who told Locke that he had to “kill” his father? Who made it a rule to kill a father to become a leader? I remember Ben showing Locke the magic box with Anthony Cooper, but was it Richard that said Locke had to kill him? Also was that the real anthony cooper or MIB? If it was MIB how did he inhabit the body if Anthony Cooper is alive in LA?
I agree with those that think that Christian might not have always been MIB. When Christian visited Jack in LA he was in a suit. When he is with Claire he is in a blue shirt and pants. On the island in White Rabbit he was in a suit.
@aaron – I always had my doubts about Claire dying as well. I wonder if she was dying and then MIB brought her to temple and claimed her.
P.S. I know I have asked the above question in the past and I am asking it again because it still bugs me.
@ScottB- those are funny lines, Sawyer and Rose and Hurley and Miles get all the fun lines.
I still like Sawyer’s reply to MIB not being able to go over water “Yes, because THAT would be ridiculous.”
Is it apparent now that show has just been a big game of backgammon between Jacob and MIB, who have each manipulated people like pieces on a board?
Does that mean that Adam and Eve–with their black and white rocks–were Jacob and MIB? (Maybe that’s why we have not heard MIB’s name yet, because it is a woman’s name.)