I liked this episode more than I probably should have. And Jen? She says “LaFleur” is comfortably within her top ten favorite episodes of “LOST” ever. While I wouldn’t go quite that far, obviously “LaFleur” clicked for us — even when it probably shouldn’t. After all, last week’s episode only covered a couple of weeks, chronologically, yet felt both rushed and by-the-numbers. Tonight we get an episode that not only spans three years, but jumps back and forth relentlessly. It played games with our expectations, and it gave us even more new characters. But somehow it worked. It had heart. It had velocity. It had everything from the four-toed statue (sort of) to Jin speaking English. And Sawyer? Why hasn’t this guy been in charge from the beginning?
While we’re largely treated to a Dharma Initiative history lesson, the shadows of the larger arc are always looming. Faraday promising himself that he “won’t tell her” (hoping to prove false his assertion that “whatever happened, happened”) to the fantastic encounter with the mysterious Richard Alpert. Juliet reminds us that her people, her time, were post-Dharma… and that both “The Incident” and “The Purge” lay ahead.
But the character interactions were the best part of “LaFleur.” And Josh Holloway sold every scene. From blowing Richard Alpert’s mind to settling down with Juliet, from selling Horace a tall tale to rising to be the town sheriff, Sawyer shined. I lamented, when we saw Sawyer and Juliet spooning in bed, that we were moments away from Kate showing up and ruining it all. And when Sawyer finally saw Kate step out of Jin’s van, Jen said, “If Sawyer leaves Juliet for Kate now, I’m going to stop watching.”
Well, not really. But it’s surely a testament to the performances of both Josh Holloway and Elizabeth Mitchell (who looks great as a mechanic, by the way) that we needed only that scene on the dock by the sub to believe just how well things worked out for them “three years later.” One episode sold them as a couple. While the “love triangle” (or quadrangle or whatever) will inevitably return, for the moment I’d like to pretend it won’t.
There are more than a few questions raised by “LeFleur,” of course. Why did Alpert want Paul’s body? The Island obviously works some magic with the deceased. Where does the smoke monster fit in? Alpert suggests with some dismay that the sonic fence is an effective deterrent, so perhaps it’s working in concert with the hostiles. Do we know who Horace and Amy’s son is? Jen’s of the opinion we haven’t met him yet, which is less satisfying but opens up more possibilities. I guess, if you believe Daniel, the baby was always meant to be born, but part of me likes the idea that Juliet’s intervention did change something… for better or worse.
Notes and Notions:
- The mention of “The Black Rock” was great, too. Though now I’m wondering where Charles Widmore is by this time. He said his people protected the island for three decades before Ben exiled him. If that period began around when we first met him as a young whippersnapper in the 1950s, he could conceivably still be around in the 1970s. Right?
- Loved the “needle drop” using the reel-to-reel tape player (“Candida” by Tony Orlando & Dawn). How many more music playback devices are left?
- I really enjoyed Miles’ snarkiness this episode, especially as Sawyer had to mostly elevate himself to leading man. His complaint about “the only two plans” (the beach vs. the Orchid) was quite apt.
- The Ankh necklace that Amy saved from Paul was a nice touch of symbolism. Signifying “eternal life,” its Egyptian roots also line up nicely with the motifs suggested by the back of the statue.
- Sawyer was overflowing with nicknames, but Jen’s favorite was “Enos,” which is a “Dukes of Hazzard” reference.
- Jen was also happy to see Kevin Rankin, who plays Herc on one of our other favorite shows, “Friday Night Lights.”
- So Horace and Amy had a baby. But what happened to Olivia, the woman Horace was with when they discovered Ben’s mother in Portland?
What did you think? Please comment below, send us an e-mail at lost@hawaiiup.com, or call the LostLine at (808) 356-0127 by Friday, March 6.
Shana, maybe the Dharma couple (Amy and Paul) broke the truce by being on the “other” side of the security fence. Or maybe they were in a no picnic zone.
Great episode – looks like were getting back to what makes Lost great (characters first, dense mythos second). I totally buy Sawyer and Juliet – hopefully something happens to Kate to keep her from interfering 🙂 The continuity errors in dates and facts (Charlotte’s birthdate, the mismatches in conversation from “Life&Death of JB”, etc) bug me – Greg Nations needs to step up his game!
Horace/Amy’s baby can’t be Jacob: Locke uses Jacob’s name as political capital when he talks to Richard in “Jughead”, and that’s in the 50’s; so Jacob’s been on the island pre-Dharma.
2 weeks is too long!
Thanks for the podcast Ozawas!
Wow, from the look of the statue, I feel like they made it purposely vague to show that it really had little significance, if any, to the show as a whole. It was almost as if they were blowing it off in just a few seconds. See – something existed there once, now it’s gone, get over it.
That’s OK by me.
I loved this episode – loved it! I will put it in my top 10 for sure.
I want to put the long-haired guy down as Jacob, but I’m not sure. I think that’s the biggest mystery for me.
Mothers dying during late term might be the result of Ben’s earlier nerve gas release. That would be ironic?
I think your podcasts are great Ryan and Jen! And I really enjoyed LeFleur.
When Jack, Kate and Hurley flash off Ajira 316 and back onto the island in 1977 they have lived 3 years (around Jan 2005 – 2008) off-island while Sawyer, Juliet, Miles, Jin & Faraday have lived 3 years on-island (1974-77). So Locke will be comparatively 3 years younger than each group, assuming he meets up with everyone, since he missed both time periods. Then again, he was dead and now is alive (it seems), so I guess it’s no big deal.
Is anyone else wondering what happened to Rose and Bernard since the flaming arrow attacks during the flashes? I take it that all remaining Flight 815 fuselage redshirts are now goners, especially since there is a new batch of Flight 316 redshirts. And did the 815 tailies that were kidnapped by the Others (ie. Cindy, the kids, etc.) flash in time as well and are in 1977 too? Darlton have officially stated that Vincent is the only character guaranteed to make it to the end of lost, so where is he in 1974-77?
I definitely like Sawyer’s new role as leader and his clean shaven look. I liked that whole scene with him and Richard Alpert.
I don’t think the Kate-Sawyer-Juliet-Jack quadrangle will span more than one episode. Kate said that she’s always been with Jack and even said that Sawyer’s gone, as in, he’s out of the picture (Jack says he’s not dead and she says, yes, but he’s gone). The last thing Juliet thought of Jack was that she knew Jack was still in love with Kate. Three years passed for the Oceanic 6 so they, too, had time to get over someone, if there was anyone to get over.
At the same time, I don’t feel a lot of love for the Sawyer and Juliet’s cuddly relationship. The writers are asking a lot of fans, whom probably were wanting to see a romantic reunion between Kate and Sawyer. Much more time passed in between when Kate left and returned to the island. I understand what and why they’re doing it this way, but I think the fans have to digest so much backstory that isn’t witnessed firsthand–it’s a lot to ask for them to stretch their imagination. I need to be really convinced Sawyer still holds no unrequited love for Kate, more than whether Kate holds any romantic feelings for Sawyer from three years ago. Most of all, I want to see the conversation between him and Kate about Clementine.
One question, or two, is that when the Oceanic 6 arrive on the island from the year 2007, once Sawyer finds them, couldn’t the submarine eventually take all the original flight 815 and 316 people, as well as Miles and Daniel, back to 2007? The island is in the 70s, but the rest of the world stayed in 2007, correct? This is vague.
Hi guys! Great podcast, I look forward to it every week.
I know there’s been a lot of talk about ancient Egyptian culture what with the hieroglyphs, the Sphinx in Hurley’s picture, and now the statue. But I wanted to add something on the topic I thought was interesting.
In an art history class I took last year, I remember learning about something called a Ka statue from the early kingdom of ancient Egypt. In burial tombs, this statue was supposed to serve as a physical resting place for the spirit, or Ka, of the deceased. The typical Ka stance included square shoulders, hands clenched at the sides, and a forward right foot, as if caught mid-step. They were often carved out of limestone and (get this!) sculptors would sometimes only give the Ka FOUR TOES to save time and money.
After comparing a screencap of the island statue (http://www.theackattack.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/whoooooaaaaa.jpg) and this example of an Egyptian Ka (http://www.egyptarchive.co.uk/images/luxor_museum/12_luxor_museum.jpg), I think its safe to say the four-toed-statue is probably related to ancient Mediterranean culture of some kind.
PS. Note that the Minoans and Greeks would often copy the Ka statue stance for their own art.
“Nothing stays buried on this island.”–John Locke.
This applies to diamonds, guns, hatches and other boxes, secrets, lies, and perhaps even to Jughead. We’ve known from the very beginning since “White Rabbit” that this applies to the dead as well. Even though the needle has settled into its groove for the time being, I feel no fate is written in stone and no death is final until the original breach in time is repaired.
(Again, I feel the whole struggle between Ben and Widmore boils down to a conflict over the inevitability of fate vs. the possibility of change. The indoctrinations of Ben’s room 23 brainwashing video clearly reveal his inclination: “Everything changes” and “Only fools are enslaved by space and time.”)
Looking at images of Egyptian gods, it seems as if the statue is most likely that of Annubis given the male garb and the pointed ears that would not match the hawk’s head that Horus has (say that 5 times fast!) It makes perfect sense to me that that we would see the god of the underworld chosen as the representation of the island. It might also be useful to note that the statue isn’t just a work of art, but serves as a beacon or lighthouse much like the colossus of Rhodes. We can tell this by the bowl-shaped crown that would be used for burning a large signal fire.
Someone just beat me to the punch with the idea that the others didn’t initially break the truce, but were responding to some violation by Amy and Paul. I know we’ve seen that area before, most notably when Yemi/Smokey passed final judgement on Eko. Is it sacred ground or a place of concentrated energy that makes it special? Amy knows more than she lets on about a lot of things because her decision to go with Juliet as her doctor implies that she never really believed Lafleur’s whole story.
Finally, if my thinking is correct, we have the first baby conceived and born on the island. Instead of trying to match this baby to a known character, I would look more to the problems of fertility that Ben was so concerned with and perhaps a possible link to the sickness. This is a great triumph for Juliet at the moment, but will the combination of birth and conception on the island cause something to go horrible wrong and create a monstrosity aka the creature from the black lagoon? This has been one of my pet theories for awhile.
Defend the island.
Debbie Said:
FIVE years isnt gonna be enough for ME to get over James. Ah, Mr. Lafleur….I wish I could quit you.
___
Might I say, that I am completely hetero, but I completely agree with this statement!
I loved this episode!
This is the first time I thought Juliet really looked superbly fantastic and to see her with the new and Improved Sawyer was great. And while everyone is hoping Kate and Jack do not screw things up for Juliet and Sawyer I am hoping Sawyer and Juliet do not screw up whats left for Kate and Jack. I love the hold Kate has on these guys and her and Jacks characters are by far my favorites. I did not like the flashes and the nosebleeds story line and I’m ecstatic that they have been allegedly saved by Locke albeit they are on the wrong Song. One more thing about scruffy sexy Sawyer….he reminds me of Kid Rock in more ways than one. Really looking forward to Sun and Jins reunion and hopefully seeing Bernard and Rose again. Last but not least although the cast is chalked full of really hot looking people, Desmond (and his hair) are the sexiest of them all!!! Love this show
I think it’s unusual that Charlotte is completely gone when they return to Faraday. It makes me wonder if during her dying words, when she says “That man was YOU!”. Could that mean his tipping her off works? Could she have vanished because she was never there? Perhaps she is alive and well thanks to Faraday and living in present time.
I have been re-watching Season 1 on my Ipod lately just to see how things might be connected. It’s very interesting to me how in “Deus Ex Machina”, Locke does an eleborate description of Mousetrap and talks about how you “start with all these parts off the board… and then one by one, you build a trap… piece by piece it all comes together… and then you wait til your opponent lands on the old cheese wheel.. and then if you set it up just right- you spring the trap”. I feel like this is exactly what we’ve been seeing.
Loved the episode. Had everything that had been mildly lacking for a couple weeks. Never thought I could get that emotionally involved in a Juliet/Sawyer duo. Everything was brilliant. I too wondered if Horace’s son is Jacob. Especially since Horace is later seen by Locke in the process of building Jacob’s cabin.
I really hate these character driven episodes. This one reminded me of Season 3. If it weren’t for the four toed statue shot and the conversation between Sawyer and Richard, I would rate this one in the bottom 10 all time of Lost episodes…as it were, it was VERY weak.
All of the jumping around from 3 years ago, to ‘3 years later’ was also unnecessary and confusing. No one asks any questions, no one talks to each other, it reminds me of Season 3 all over again. WHY would they not be curious about the time travel? About Juliet’s past? About where Locke “went”? Staying on the island? Who in their right mind would ever want to do that?
People are being murdered everywhere you look, smoke monsters that kill people, and weird cults like the Others and Dharma are all around. Who would want to live like that? No one, that’s who. You get a chance to get off of wacko island on a submarine and you don’t take it? Sorry, I’m not buying it.
It is easy to get confused with the timeline on the Island, what with all the jumping back and forth, 3 years here, 3 years there, etc. One thing I noticed on the boards is people confusing who was when where:
1) The DI of LaFleur is 1974 to 1977. These are true DI people and not Others. The people living in the DI village when we first see them there in season three are the Hostiles who took over the camp after the Purge. The only DI crossover that we know of is Ben. So people like Tom Friendly, Ethan and Goodwin are not going to be citizens of the 1974 DI camp…they are Hostiles in 1974.
2) The 1973 DI is not the tail end of the DI. Marvin Candle is making Orientation films circa 1980, which to me seems like the Island DI’s glory days and when Ben possibly arrived on the Island. If that is true and he was only 10-12 years old, then Ben is a lot younger that I first thought. If he was born in 1970, then he is only 34 years old at the time of the 815 crash…Michael Emerson is a good actor, but he is 54 years old in real life so that seems like a bit of a stretch.
3) Between 1974 and 1977 the Flashing Losties would have had plenty of time to meet all the DI members on the Island and suss out who is who and who they grow up to be. So Miles would have seen his dad and his baby-self, they would have met boy Ben, etc. There is no indication from LaFleur that any of this has been revealed to them, leading me to believe that Marvin Candle, Ben and a large group of the DI are yet to arrive on the Island.
4) Daniel Faraday is obviously there when Candle is there, so there is a continuing mystery that is yet to be solved.
Hi guys, what an episode!
Step aside Locke, step down Jack here comes Sawyer! He is good, he puts the con skills to good use, he is a pragmatist and he is not afraid. He takes the initiative and does take responsibility. All trademarks of a leader! It has been some time since we last had a Sawyer episode and this one was good, probably the best Sawyer-centric episode.
Juliet as a mechanic, there is another good reason to visit the island!
I thought that I saw Ben in the preview for this week’s episode, was I mistaken?
If this is 1974 and the DI, then where are Ben and Roger? What about Widmore… …wait where the heck is Rose and Bernie? They have been on the island, separated for at least three years and nobody is wondering! I half expected to see Bernie running around in primitive clothing attacking Otherville with the Hostiles!
My head hurts, so I am going to take a small break.
….
Ok, back again. Some random thoughts. Where was Daniel in 1977, he was the only who we did not see. How is it that Richard can go through the sonic defense system? For whom is the system designed? Is it possible that there is a third group of people on the island? Did Horace know about the Black Rock? How come that babies can actually be born on the island? If there was a truce between the two parties why did they shoot Paul? What happens to dead bodies on the island?
All in all a good episode some new characters, I am not able to actually understand what is going on but I have been advised by Eloise to take take a leap of faith.
Take care guys and enjoy the break.
Austin sounds good…..
Ilias
PS: My wife loved Sawyer’s smile, she found his dimples so sweet 🙂
I wholeheartedly agree with everyone who loved this episode. When I look back at lost episodes that I loved they’ve mainly been character and emotionally driven ones. I like all the mythology and sci-fi, but for me the relationships, romantic or friendship, come first. I’ve enjoyed this season, but there has been a lack of, I don’t know, “heart” I guess. Last week was okay, but I didn’t like feeling sorry for Locke for 45 minutes (was Kate a total see you next tuesday or what??). I think that this episode and 316 have been my favorites so far.
Jen, I said almost the exact same thing at the end of the episode! If Sawyer leaves Juliet for Kate, so help me… I won’t stop watching, but I’ll be VERY disappointed. I’m hoping that the worst that will happen is Sawyer will be tempted by Kate but in the end realizes that he loves Juliet. You know that the writers have to toy with our emotions a little bit.
Ilias-Richard is looking more and more godlike or demigodlike with his immortal good looks and ability to walk through the sonic fence. I 110% agree with your wife about Mr. Dimples.
@Rebecca in NJ
I’m also curious about Rose and Bernard. My guess is that they were killed by the 1954 others and are now the “Adam and Eve” that the Jack and Co. found in the cave in Season 1. The last time I remember seeing Rose and Bernard was when everyone ran away from the flaming arrows. Plus, if I remember the episode where they found Adam and Eve correctly, Jack guessed that the skeletons they found in the cave (in 2004) were about fifty years old.
Bill — Juliet popped a CD in at the beginning of season 3 or 4 (whenever she joined the cast).
WOW! I loved this episode! For me it’s definitely in my top 5, if not my favourite of all time.
Josh Holloway was wonderful in this episode, as was Elizabeth Mitchell (who always is!). I love the dynamic between these two characters — and if sawyer leaves juliet for kate after the kitchen scene then… well i’ll be mad!
love the podcast, keep up the good work! 🙂
You ask “Now I’m wondering where Charles Widmore is by this time?” Widmore was not part of the Dharma Initiative, but an “Other” so he would not be with the Dharma-o-crats. Did Swayer’s line confirm that Alpert likes to wear eyeliner? Not that there is anything wrong with that.
Your podcast is great btw, keep up the good work.
What happened to the Audible.com sponsorship? I totally think you guys deserve to make something from the great podcast, and the way you handled the sponsoring was unobtrusive and natural. Did you get bad feedback, or decide for some other reason to stop advertisements? Because I liked that you were going to make some money. You give so many people such a great service, you deserve it!
Yeah, not so much. That episode was as close to Grey’s Anatomy as I’m willing to get to. Usually, I’m a huge Sawyer fan … but gritty, in-your-face Sawyer (although he was a lot of that and delivered some classic nicknames), not sensitive, doe-eyed Sawyer. I found myself rolling my eyes a couple times during the episode which has never occurred. Love the podcast!
Wouldn’t it be ironic if Amy’s baby is Kemi (the mercenary) and the reason he knews the island is that he lived there as a child.
Ron Kaplan-You cracked me up. Have you heard that some have referred to the hooded John Locke as Obi-John?!;O)
Great episode. I love Sawyer and Juliette as a couple. There’s kind of a Han Solo/Princess Leia vibe to their relationship.
One comment I wanted to make was that I went back and watched The Man Behind the Curtain to see if Horace ever referred to Olivia as his wife. From what I could tell he never does, so its possible that they were just DI colleagues, friends, ect.
While it seems that Horace has a leadership role at the DI, I don’t think he runs the DI. His role at this stage seems more administrative and operational, whereby he is in charge of security, grounds, maintenance and day-to-day operations. It didn’t seem like an executive or research role. Notice, for example, that in 1977 Horace, LaFleur, etc don’t seem to visit the research stations or have anything to do with the research. Note too that we don’t see Faraday in 1977, which suggests that he is elsewhere using his particular scientific knowledge to help the Initiative and that he may not be able to discuss his work with LaFleur, Juliet, Miles and Jin. This also means that they may deliberately be denied knowledge of what the DI is about so I don’t think we can assume that during those three years they would now know all about the DI. In other words, don’t expect many flashbacks to that three-year period because there actually may not be much more to tell. I suspect that in coming weeks we will see some of the interesting things we know about, like Ben arriving and The Incident.
A few thoughts:
Am I the only one who thought that Sawyer gave a look of recognition at Amy, like he knew who she was?
Crackpot theory: the baby is Sawyer, hence the special dinner by our culinary challenged Julliette, and the especially worried Sawyer while the baby was being delivered. I almost expected her to come out with a “happy birthday honey”.
Sonic Fence: I suspect it’s primarily there to keep Smokie out, not the “hostiles”, especially if all it takes is a pair of ear plugs to get through it, (or was I missing something there).
Wasn’t that the Pearl station shown in the opening “hootenanny” scene?
What if Daniel, seeing that TELLING Charlotte did no good in preventing her death, is now working to sabotage the DI’s work in harnessing the FDW energy so that she is not killed by the time jumping. Although, if Ms. Hawking is right something else will get her in the end anyway.
Woeh!!!,
So this episode totally demonstrates why I am hooked on Lost!!! Just when I thought the writes could not bend my mind anymore they did it again! I was so worried that Sawyer would be stuck in time without ever seeing Kate, then 2 bombs drop back to back. Sawyer saying he cant even remember what Kate looks like and then “boom” another bomb, she shows up in the 70s…WOW. I did NOT see that one coming at all.
I must also say, I love the relationship related episodes and truly feel that if we don’t connect with the characters or care what happens to them the whole thing falls apart. Don’t get me wrong I think the mythology is important and intriguing. But having a bunch of mythology and action without good relationship episodes can bring the whole thing crashing down. My Husband and I gave up on Hero’s for that very reason.
Enjoyed the episode. Again so many questions as noted by all your brilliant posters above (I do take the time to read them – it’s worth it).
I like how it reminded me of an old Star Trek episode where Capt “JIM”
is oh so happy with his little Indian Princess until his true love (the Enterprise) came back.
I think Juliette and Kate both could be pregnant and provide an interesting ‘which one do we save’ kind of drama.
The last episode, Jeremy Bentham, showed Locke with 4 toes in his foot cast. The statue is obviously either Locke from some sort of time travel in the past. Or he is an ancient ruler reborn, which is why everyone thinks he is special – Also the reason why they showed the statue from behind to add the suspense. The hostiles, Alberts people are descendants from an ancient time.
A note on general themes : I’ve noticed that the idea of lineage is a huge theme in this show. Most prevalent is everyone’s “daddy issues”. Run down the list of main characters and you have Daddy issues all throughout. Kate’s dad – Jack’s dad – Hurly’s dad – Penelope’s dad – Sun’s dad – Jin’s dad – Ben’s dad- Locke’s dad – Walt’s dad… Aaron’s dad? hmm.
When we aren’t trying to figure out the latest person’s Father problem, we are wondering if a baby will be ok and what will happen to the baby in the future and what is the baby’s name and who got pregnant where and when.
Now that we are in the 70’s we are in for it with trying to figure all of that out. Why can’t daddy go with us… ?
I did some re-watching and had just watched the episode where Hurley tricks Sawyer into being nice. He tells him that he is the default leader when Jack Locke Kate and Sayid are not around. We get a set up way back then for this episode, where Sawyer uses his powers for good. a three year con. Now to get the old leaders to fall in line and not screw it up.
I love how we see everyone after 3 years on living life to come back together like uncomfortable high school reunion.
can’t wait to get a look at the other group’s time jumping and 3 years of DI…. maybe they fell in with the island folk
another random thing: Sayid was tasked to get information from Iraqi soldiers ( using torture) so that the US troops could find a lost pilot… Lapidas maybe ? was he involved in iraq?
Hi, this is my first time posting:
Do you think its possible that The Oceanic 5 (not including Ben or Locke and Aaron is on the mainland) are in 1977 while Ben and Locke are in 2007? It’s a little far fetched, but I’m not sure what would happen to the island if a future self met a past self, it seems like this should not be allowed. So basically, young Ben should not be able to meet present day Ben and that’s why they are on the hydra station and the Losties were transported to the bigger island.
Sawyer and Juliette are in bed, the phone rings, and Sawyer answers it. It’s Jin calling. From a Volkswagan microbus in 1977. How did Jin place this call? Did someone have a cell phone with them?
Sawyer asks Juliette to deliver Amy’s baby and Juliette objects saying that all her attempts to deliver a baby on the island have failed. Sawyer’s response is that whatever event that causes mothers to die during late term may not have happened yet. The fact that Amy and the baby are both doing fine after the delivery implies that this is true. Now, MLE in Colorado asks “was the statue ‘Bastet, … the goddess of pregnant women?” If that is the case, can it be that the event Sawyer refered to, when it does happen, is coincident with the destruction of the statue?
– or –
Russell in Raleigh thinks the statue is Anubis because it appears to have dog ears. To this, I simply note that Vincent’s feet would appear to have only four toes.
And finally, I assumed that Charlotte’s body disappeared when the Losties time jumped because only live people time jumped and the body was left behind.
I thoroughly enjoyed this episode and have watched it several times already. I totally bought the Juliet and Sawyer relationship that they had been building for these past episodes. Both Kate and Jack should stay the heck away from the happy new couple.
A couple thoughts, I hate to think what Ben might do if he found out about the two. I’m sure he hasn’t gotten over his obsessive feelings toward Juliet and look what happened to Goodwin…
But although we know Ben, Locke and Frank are alive at least, I’m not sure they are in the 70s like everyone else. For one, the Hydra building does look abandoned, and if those ARE Dan’s notes in the office… how did they get there? Second, it did look like the plane had landed on the runway which hadn’t been built until 2004. That is, unless this is an older or different one.
And Rose and Bernard as Adam and Eve? I really enjoy that idea and I’m sure the writers will cover that in full.
Please keep up the great work! I look forward to hearing your podcast every week! You guys do such a great job!
I am 100% sure that the statue is John Locke , in the last episode after he writes the letter to Jack , he gets up and walks and he has only 4 toes ( the camera even focuses on this /or/ it can be just misleading)
As for the baby it could be this guy Caesar who appears in the last episode as well , and makes it to the island .
In the end i really think that Charles is one of the good guys !
On topic great episode indeed , son of a bitch !
Another couple of notes after my second watch of the episode.
The extended “previously on” section at the beginning of the episode is extra special for two reasons.
1) Obviously the statue is shown, i’m in agreement with E at longlivelocke.blogspot.com in that i believe the statue is very possibly Taweret; the Egyptian god of fertility, childhood, pregnancy.
2) (this is the important one) We saw the scene with john turning the FDW, and we saw that it occurs at the same time as the Losties are looking at the statue. We are to assume that this time frame is the distant past because of the statue. Now we know that the FDW room exists in this time period! Before the well. So it’s old, built by the same people who built the statue perhaps. But the well isn’t the entrance. So perhaps the temple is. Why did the well get built there? Hopefully not the paradoxing reason that someone finds the rope that was left embedded in the ground thanks to Sawyer!
I’ve been saying for a while now that i believe Richard Alpert to be an Egyptian slave who was held on the Black Rock. But there’s a good chance that the statue builders were there before the Black Rock arrived. Maybe the Black Rock was heading to the island for that reason. The Hanso connection with the ship is too important to assume the ship is there by chance.
I’m also wondering more about the sonic fence. If you can negate the effects simply by wearing earplugs then surely it can’t be there to keep out the “hostiles”. Is it to protect from animals, or just for Smokey. Richard makes a nod towards the latter with his cheeky “it may keep OTHER THINGS out”.
My last comment for this post.. Horace says to the other guy “Call the arrow, tell them we’re at condition one, take the heavy ordinance and make sure the fence is at maximum”. His accent made me think he was saying “air-o” at first – but then i remembered that Horace wears a jumpsuit with the arrow insignia (i’m not sure if he was wearing that in this episode, but in the past we’ve seen it) and that the arrow was used to “develop defensive strategies against the hostile natives of the Island” according to Dr Changs video. Now, it’s understandable they have a station that’s used for tactical planning, but why is Horace working there (he’s a mathematician) and what’s he planning here. What specifically is the heavy ordnance? Normally the term is used for artillery and the like. Here’s a long shot but it might well have taken some “ordnance” to reduce the 4 toed statue to the remaining foot we’ve seen… Just a thought.
Haven’t commented in a few weeks. Here’s my thoughts.
-There was a full statue, not just the foot. I wonder when that time was.
-What is it with Horace and trees? When he appeared to Locke, he was cutting one down. Now he’s blowing them up.
-If there was a truce, why did the two Others find it fit to shoot Paul & attempt to take Amy?
-Juliet with the “Norma Rae” kerchief now makes her the best looking woman on LOST hands down in my book.
-What are the grids that Jin & Sawyer are looking for? (133/134)
-Whoever Horace & Michelle Dressler/Amy’s son is, is 27 years old if still alive in 2004.
-I loved the “eyeliner” remark by Sawyer!
-Sawyer mentioned it was 1974, so “3 years later” is now 1977.
-Sawyer’s talk to Horace about a woman he loved could apply just as much to Cassidy as it can to Kate.
-Sawyer/Juliet is now my favorite couple. Followed by Desmond/Penny.
-I agree with Jen. Sawyer & Juliet must not be broken. Kate & Jack can stay together in their neurotic misery. By this point in time, Sawyer-Juliet have been together longer than Sawyer-Kate, Juliet-Jack.
-Whatever led to women not being able to carry pregnancies to term & give birth wasn’t always there. It must’ve occurred after this time period and before Juliet got there.
-Anyone wonder if Juliet/Sawyer/Jin have run into a young Ben Linus and how awkward those encounters must be?
-I’m convinced “The Incident” is how the Oceanic 3 & the Time Travel 5 get back to 2007.
I haven’t read anyone’s comments so far. I just wanted to put down my inital post-viewing thoughts down as they came. I’ll respond to the other comments after I read them all. It’s going to be an agonizing two weeks.
I didn’t have time to go through all of the reactions above but one thing came up to me that might give us a hint of what is going on.
We were always teased with the whole Jacob idea and now they throw in some more Egyptian stuff. We have also seen a lot of parallels with Christianity which makes me think about the story of Jacob in the Bible. One of his sons, Jospeh, becomes after a long story viceroy of Egypt, alongside the pharaoh.
Besides the link with both Jacob and Egypt, another interesting name pops up. Jacob had a total of 12 sons, 10 of them with Leah and the other two with Rachel. What happends to be the name of the youngest son? Benjamin! (Story of Joseph: Genesis 37 to 50)
For those interested, a synopsis of the story can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob#Joseph_son_of_Jacob_and_Rachel
Hi Ryan and Jen
Loved the episode and was gripped by it.
2 things i noticed in the scene near the start when the 2 guys on security duty spot Horace drunk…
It struck me as strange that there was a geniune fear from them both about alterting head of security Sawyer/LaFleur. I don’t really get why they would appear to be so frightened of him. The fear and anticipation of the 2 reminded me of Locke approaching Jacobs cabin.
The other thing i noticed was that when Saywer went to grab his Dharma jumpsuit to go deal with Horace our attention was on name on the jumpsuit but if you look at the chair as he removes it you will see what looks to me to be a donkey wheel type engraving on the chair. I could be wrong or it may be a coincidence but it looks similar.
Here’s a picture i took of it…
http://i39.tinypic.com/e63dl1.png
Look forward to podcast and thanks for all your hard work.
ok it occurred to me reading all these clever posts that maybe
A] The “Hostiles’ broke the truce were going to kidnapp Amy and try to get her pregnant aka like when Ethan kidnapped a very pregnant Clair
B} maybe only the hostiles have “baby issues” remember that Juliet was recruited by Ben and Ben did the purge = hostiles took over the DI .
so in conclusion the DI never had “baby issues” only the native hostiles did
C} Just for the record I had been routing for Sawyer and Kate but I am really liking Juliet and Sawyer thing. I hope Juliet does not get screwed my the manipulative insecure run away at any opp Kate.
WOW!
What an amazing episode! I think this is my favorite Sawyer episode! With out first glimpse at the 4 toed statue, to seeing sawyer do what he does best..Con, I loved this episode! After last weeks awesome but “slow” episode this is what LOST is about!.. The writers are doing there best story telling this season!
Things I noticed:
1. At first glimpse, I thought that was the Pearl Station at the beginning.
2. Charlotte, I wonder if we have a little bit of story left with her.
3. Richard Alpert coming into New Otherton, could Dharma be the “military” Alpert is protecting the island from. Was Jughead put there by the Dharma ?..I wonder what the truce is. I am still wondering who is “good” and who is “bad”.
Look Forward to the Podcast..
-Jonine
I finally managed to watch this episode last night. Haven’t had a chance to read most of the comments above. Something that’s tickling my brain is which Ben have we seen. Are all the flashbacks we’ve seen of the Ben from an earlier time, or is future Ben involved in some of these situations.
Hey Ryan and Jen! Here’s some of my views on the latest episode of LOST.
– I think it makes sense that Alpert wanted Paul’s body so he did not have to return to his people empty handed.
“No matter who you are, two of my men are dead, my people need some kind of justice”.
It would make sense for his people to be incensed by the deaths of two comrades and Alpert made his way to the Dharma camp determined to set this right, only for the intervention of ‘Sawyer’ to make him reconsider his initial plan.
– As for Smokey, I’m going to put out a crazy theory that Richard Alpert (eventually) gets chosen by Jacob to be the conscience of smokey. That smokey is the guardian of the island, and whilst not under direct command, it serves the leader of the island.
Smokey is a darker version of Abbaddon on the island.
Abbadon serves off the island to get people where they need to be with a view to get to the island, wheras Smokey defends the island from people who are not meant to be there, creating a sort of balance.
– I think that Horace and Amy’s son is Ben, that with Juliet being there, she saves Ben’s mother from dying from giving birth. Another (divine?) intervention?
– I feel that Daniel is still holding back alot of information from us. The way in which he says “I will not tell her” strikes me as if he knew that he would see her again when she was little, has he been here before thinking that telling her to not return would save her?
And just for kicks, here’s another theory for you guys to think about;
Ben knows about the upcoming war and as a result, is breaking the rules by returning to the island to be able to be part of it. He has to kill Locke so that Locke’s last conscience moment alive off the island is directly connected with Ben. This allows Ben to appear in the same time in which Locke appears prior to the war starting. What do you think?
Love the podcasts, all the best.
Aegis
Kudos to the writers of this show! I listen to several podcasts (Ryan and Jen, you are my favorites especially since we share a Hawaii connection) but all our chatter is merely reaction and not prediction: not one podcast, that I know of, has a clue where the next episode will go. Love how they keep us guessing … perhaps to the very end. Just amazed by the creative screenwriting. Igree with other posters here that there is an undeniable connection between Egyptian and Island mythologies: the hieroglyphics, the statue, the “eyeliner,” Hurley’s drawing of The Sphinx, etc. Could The Island be The Lost (get it?) City of Atlantis? The Biblical Jacob died in Egypt and was thinking this could be the same Jacob, who fathered the twelve sons who became the twelve Jewish tribes. Thought Jacob could be the mythological “Wandering Jew,” but pretty sure his body was taken back to Israel for burial during The Exodus … or maybe that was just Joseph’s body. As to Amy’s baby, I don’t believe it could be Jacob because Locke mentions being sent by Jacob when he visits Richard in The Other’s camp in the early 50s. I’m thinking the baby is Ethan. How cool would that be … Juliet delivering her future lover? Must say I’m puzzled about Juliet being such a competent cook and homemaker for Sawyer in the past (1950s) but a total failure, burning the muffins, for Ben in the future (2000s). This show just keeps getting better and better. Can I go cold turkey with no episode next week? Guess it will be a good time to get out the DVDs of prior seasons and double check some of the things referenced this season. Looking forward to your take on this episode next Monday. Aloha for now.
Sandra, I suspect the baby is not Ethan because Ethan is a “hostile”, not a DI guy and the DI guys all got nailed in the purge. Maybe we’ll never know who the baby is because of the purge and the birth is only important to show that at some point in the island’s history, babies were conceived and born on the island.
Alternate title: “This Place is NOT Death”
What an UP episode. I thought it was a bit strange how they all were able to be there for 3 years and not slip up on their stories and let any DI people know who they really are.
Also, where’s Daniel (3 years later?)
I really think that the whole birth issue has to due with Ben being the leader. It seems that babies were born before Ben took over, and as soon as Locke arrives on the island Claire is able to deliver just fine. Ben is not supossed to be the leader of the Others and as a result the island punishes them in a way reminiscent of Ben’s birth, where his mother died.
I really agree with someone earlier in this post who also said that the Adam and Eve skeletons we see “later” in season 1 are Rose and Bernard. They dissapeared somewhere after the flaming arrow attack, and after their travels through time were over in the mid seventies, they settled down at the caves where they knew there was shelter, and eventually died in each others’ arms. I like the idea anyway.