I enjoyed the episode quite a bit. Jen was less impressed. To be sure, the big Claire reveal is something that’s been suspected since Christian Shepherd and Ana Lucia went to Australia in “Two for the Road.” I thought it was handled as well as it could have been (without making Claire seem like a dunce), but Jen thought it was too painfully contrived. Add in the climb high over the fence (look, Kate in another tree!) that was obviously not that high, and emasculated Sawyer, and you’ve got a frustrated fan. Me? I accentuated the positive. At least the Claire-Jack link was out of the way halfway through the episode, and the pre-thud shocker was pretty well done (he’s running… for a touchdown!). And even though it was a Claire episode, all eyes are on Locke.
So, Locke redeemed, sort of. What happened to The Flame was not a mistake. Neither was Mikhail’s belated death. (Still, in true “LOST” fashion, someone else with answers dies.) But what is he up to? I’ll tell you what, I’ll take evil scheming Locke over bumbling Locke, any day. The question is, has he always been scheming? It’s hard to tell, Jen says. I’ll admit his character has not been handled consistently.
The bird capture subplot didn’t add much, except another Charlie rescue and a good opportunity for Claire and Sun to gripe about men. When Claire was tossing Charlie out of her life again, I couldn’t help but smirk. Their relationship went through a full cycle in 30 minutes. Methinks that’s basically how things are going to go for those two indefinitely… unless doomed Charlie is given one pivotal moment to break out of the loop. If you know what I mean.
I agree with Jen that the Desmond premonitions thing could get old quick. It either needs to be explored in detail, or conveniently resolved. Again, if you know what I mean.
Jen and I are also split on Claire’s note to the outside world. She felt “HELP!” would’ve sufficed. I liked the somewhat flowery essay. It kind of grounded the series again, taking a brief step back to remind us of the bigger picture.
“You’re not on the list because you are flawed,” Mikhail says in the episode’s meatiest bit of exposition. “You are angry, weak, and frightened.” The list returns, for more good and bad people differentiation. And he clarifies that Ben is not “Him.” Mikhail also makes it a point to show he knows about each of our survivors, including Locke.
Indeed, I like how they laid groundwork for upcoming episodes. He almost mentions John Locke’s paralysis, and Sun later mentions her family’s feelings about Jin.
“Rousseau is a liar, liar, pants on fire,” says Jen. Sorry, Jay.
Notes and Notions:
- “Goth Claire” was beautiful.
- Unresolved parent issues are coming to the forefront again. Hurley left his dad with the possibility of reconciliation upon his return. Claire left her mom on the threshold of understanding.
- Was I the only one that figured Christian Shepherd was going to off Carole (Claire’s mom) anyway? Would’ve been a nice link to Jack’s hand in Shannon’s dad’s death in Season 2.
- Jin’s English is improving slowly with each episode (even though he only counted to three, for the most part). By Season 4, he’ll be magically fluent (it’s that Island Power!) and Daniel Dae Kim will be one happy camper.
- Location Notes: Claire’s accident was at the Chevron gas station near Kahala Mall (corner of 21st Avenue and Waialae Ave.). You can see the viaduct overhead (the east end of H-1). They reversed the film to get right-hand drive. She and Christian Shepherd had coffee inside Kahala Mall. Claire was treated for her injuries at Kahuku Hospital. And her tattoo parlor was near Kemo’o Farms Pub on Wilikina Drive near Funston Road.
Links:
- “Par Avion” discussions at TheFuselage.com and Lost-Forum.com
hmmmm Claire with black hair ..its gonna be SEXYYYY !!!!!!!!!!
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ok ok sorry !
hmmm…nice..not great, not awsome..just nice. Kind of a let down after last weeks show. I had high hopes coming off of last weeks show..I guess just asking for too much. Lock…what path are you going down…
Not a great episode in and of itself (at least for the diehards that surmised half of what was about to happen). But as far as the necessary transitions go, it was solid. The Others defend their territory, but from who else besides the flight survivors? I guess Dharma wanted them to protect them from the “hostiles”, but what purpose does it serve now? Or was it only recently reactivated perhaps?
A decent storyline for Claire. She certainly wasn’t all roses (Aussie punk?)
Both the Sheppards continue to impress me. Has Jack fallen into cahoots with the Others, or is this just a trick? Can’t wait for next week: Locke, wheelchair, explanation, wheeeee!
Some random comments about another episode that, while not outstanding, has me anxiously waiting until next week.
Can certainly see Locke fitting the role of Stephen King’s morally ambiguous traveling man now. I guess next week may show us where he stands.
Did anyone else catch that Kate did NOT seem at all happy when Sayyid forced her to stop before the security perimeter? The writers finally allow Evangeline to stretch her acting range beyond the sad and worried expressions she had for two seasons (and have her finally break out of – as Jen put it- the Kate trifecta) – yay!
The ending scene with Jack, even though I had heard/read about it in a spoiler (I think from Ryan?) still had me stunned. Jack seemed so…. happy. A nice nod from the writers to Matthew Fox’ college career as a wide receiver for Columbia.
great episode i thought! surprised by the early comments here… “diehards that surmised half of what was about to happen”– what does that even mean? it sounds se… elitist and dismissive.
i cherish my naivete and avoid spoilers like the plague. had even forgotten we’d once guessed the jack’s dad=claire’s dad (the episode where girlfight drives him to a house and he demands to see “her”.
loved the balance between the three storylines. great writing, outstanding acting.
writing of last three episodes just seems miles above some of the episodes earlier this season. thank you lost!
That ending was pure class. Just plain nice. It wasn’t one of those wtf cliffhangers in the conventional sense but it did make you just sit down and go whoa.
This is probably one of the few episodes this season that I can say had an important flashback story. Not only was the flashback important, but it tied in to the island story really nicely.
I actually had low expectations for this episode but was pleasantly surprised. Definitely one of the better ones this season.
I thought this episode was simply fabulous. When I read a brief synopsis that Claire would be using birds to get them off the island…I’m not going to lie, I thought that was just ridiculous. But I was pleasantly surprised, as well. Her flashback was probably one of the more interesting flashbacks this season. (And VERY well written.) I’m glad that her and Charlie have FINALLY communicated with each other and are on the same level now. And Jack playing football…yeah, weird.
Ok…so a claire story. I thought was very well done. With claire there always seems to be things about fate, water, and now flying. In the episode where claire sees the room the “others” had made for her and the baby, there was an airplane mobile. Now it’s birds. A flock of birds flying i think symbolizes the links of heavens and the earth. Birds could also symbolize forewarning and a message…didn’t kate see the birds too? In the koran bird is also like a symbol for fate…hence charlie (the fate on the knuckles..and the fate of himself..) Fate with claire reminds me of aaron getting baptized. This whole episode to me seemed like a link between heaven and earth somehow…and desmond in the picture knowing what might happen….I don’k know..hmmm. In claires flashback she grew a lot to appologize to her mother. I found it kind of funny that Jack had a tattoo story and that claire in her flashback worked at a tattoo place. As far as the other half of this episode with sayid, kate, locke, danielle, and patchy….poor patchy didn’t last as long as i thought he might have. Danielle needs to talk more..or have a danielle flashback. And Locke….something is going on in his mind……..I guess we shall see what happens next week. And what???? playing football? Did kate, locke, sayid, danielle, and patchy start a warning for the others when the fence killed patchy….or back at enter 77? Ok my mind has a lot…sorry…. 🙂 🙂
oh yeah…and all of a sudden the character of Sun starts speaking well in english…was that just me? or did people catch that….
In my opinion, if it wasn’t Claire in the flashback this would have been a great episode. That’s not to say I didn’t like the flashback — on the contrary, I thought it was strong and definitely the best acting we’ve seen from Claire in well over a season and a half — but she is so flippin’ whiny on the island, and the trifecta of her and whiny angry Charlie and creepy Desmond is dragging things down.
The connection to Christian Shepherd just seems too obvious and easy, but man, was that a big reveal. It seems like the writers are forcing the parallels w/ Jack and Claire (she works in a tattoo parlor? blonde mother in a car accident?) a bit. Or is this a “let’s not mistake fate for coincidence” kind of thing?
Can someone with more time or a better memory PLEASE give a rough timeline for Jack and Claire? Ana Lucia was with Christian the night he banged on a blonde’s door in Australia. May have been the aunt, but if that was Claire’s mom’s place, that was before Claire got pregnant (or barely into it) and thus Ana Lucia was in Australia a LONG time. Looking for some rough timeline on the whole Jack confronts Christian/Christian goes to Australia and starts drinking again/meets Sawyer/meets A-L/confronts blonde/dies.
Curious to see what’s going on with Jack and the others. I also like the harkening back to the uber-Other (Jacob?) by Mikhail. And I am so happy to see a strong Sayid and a less sissified Locke back. Now if only we could get back the Kate of season 1…
I liked the episode but it wasn’t as deep as I had hoped it would be. The Claire flashback just confirmed what most of us already suspected. I was very intrigued by the C4 in Locke’s backpack… very interesting puts a real spin on Locke’s character and his motives. I found Patchy’s comment to Kate about her not “understanding” very interesting… does this mean that the people on the list have some kind of psychic ability whether they know it or not? This would confirm and explain the Other’s fascination with Walt. We know that Jack wasn’t on the list so why have the Other’s taken to him so completely? It’s going to be interesting to find out how Jack and the Other’s have formed this alliance of trust or is it a rouse on both sides?
Hey all. I love reading the re-caps and discussions on this site (almost) as much as the episodes themselves. Today, I need someone’s help. Last night we had company in the middle of the show (a cardinal sin in our house usually) and I must have missed what happened to Danielle around the sonic defense fence. She was absent at the otherville football game and Ryan calls her a “liar, liar, pants on fire” in his recap. What did she say/do? Thanks to anyone who can fill me in.
I really enjoyed this episode primarily because we haven’t seen much of Claire this season and Emilie de Ravin is just so cute.
Speaking of characters we haven’t seen, where did Rose and Bernard go? They must have moved to the other side of the island!
As for Locke, last week I thought he just made one bad decision after another. I’m no longer sure. Could he be doing all of this intentionally? No one is really that stupid. I’m pretty sure he knew that he would kill Mikhail Bakunin when he pushed him, but why? What does he know that we don’t? Whose side is he really on?
My teachers way back long ago in school would say that all of the losties lack any degree of intellectual curiosity. Every time they get a chance to get some answers they ask one or two questions and stop. When Locke and Kate were asking Mikhail questions, Sayid interrupted them and like good little soldiers they dropped the conversation and followed. I would have looked at Sayid and said “shut up” I want to hear the answers to these questions!
I can’t imagine that the rescue squad thinks that they’ll be able to take on a whole armed camp of Others/Hostiles. Guess what, I bet they can. The Others will be like the indians in the old cowboy movies. They probably can’t shoot straight.
Now for something interesting. I read this theory on EW.com:
“You guys should really check out Farmer’s Riverworld series, because it’s loaded with Lost resonances. Does reincarnation explain it all? Do ”the Others” = ”The Ethicals”? Does ”The Mysterious Stranger” = ”Ben”? Is it just coincidence that Mikhail Bakunin is a character in the third season of Lost AND the third Riverworld book The Dark Design? And how WEIRDLY COINCIDENTAL is it that the recent Jack episode ”Stranger in a Strange Land” is also the name of a sci-fi book by Robert Heinlein, which was dedicated to… Philip Jose Farmer! C’MON, PEOPLE! There MUST be a CONNECTION!” – Interesting eh? I’m a fan of the Riverworld books and I should have picked up all the similarities.
John
P.S. Ryan:
Where do you think they filmed the scene where Desmond and Claire found the bird? It doesn’t look like anywhere near Police Beach and it’s not China Walls or Portlock. (I explored them pretty extensively last October.)
3 minutes before the end my wife started in “Another episode of little plot reveal” and then BAM! Syaid says “we’re here” and show jack running towards them.
Jack running towards them, looking back… to catch the football. That was just a great scene. Whoever came up with that was brilliant. Kate’s look was like “wtf”! Great mid season cliff hanger. I was left pumped up and excited about the show again.
So, is Juliet now a flawed person (and marked so) because she killed Pickett? And does “Jacob” want Jack with them because they lost their other surgeon – Ethan? That can’t be the only reason.
And has Jack ever killed anyone (not accidentally)? If so, is he flawed? If he is, shouldn’t he be marked if he’s living with the “hostiles” now? If he’s not, why did they never take him in the first place? I don’t think Jack has actually killed anyone on the island yet.
Ok… I am such a LOST fan! T-shirts, episodes on itunes, mousepads, etc…
never missed an episode! BUT who the heck is…Jacob? I missed a big one somewhere…damn those talkers in the living room! LOL someone help…
All in all – it – to me – was an OK kinda episode. I guess I am in the minority when I say I was dissapointed that it turned out that Christian was actually Claire’s father – if for nothing else than EVERYONE assumed he was. It would have been cool to have had a “cross” between Christian and Claire – maybe where Christian just happened to stop into ehr tattoo shop to get one “just like my son” LOL
And where is the “big mind blowing twist” that Lindeloff and Cuse promised for around this episode? Was it Kate, Locke and Sayid finding “Othersville”? I mean that would blow her mind – but not ours – we knew about the place and that Jack was going to be there. Was it Jack playing football with Tom?? Maybe it’s me – but I haven’t seen it yet.
Is it safe to assume that Jack’s dad was arguing with Lindsay (Calire’s aunt) when he was in Australia during last season’s AnaLucia flashback?
If I remember, he kept saying “Let me see her” At the time, I thought “her” was Claire, but it must’ve been the mom who was in the hospital. Right?
Igmar, I’ve been wondering the same thing about that big twist. Is it maybe Jack with The Others? That doesn’t really seem all that mind-blowing, to be honest. If Locke turns out to be working with The Others, that would be pretty big, I guess… The described it like a game-changer, so you would think that, whatever it is, we should know it when it happens!
I’m with Dave — I’m confused about the Christian-Claire-Jack-Ana Lucia timeline.
Xtremdelt’s possible explanation doesn’t work because Claire wasn’t pregnant when she first met Christian, which would be when he told Claire’s aunt (if that’s who was at the door in the Ana Lucia flashback) “Let me see her.” So, way more than a few days had elapsed between that encounter and Christian’s death.
Can ANYONE figure this out? I can’t even explain my confusion well!
Gretchen… thinking about it, we don’t know that Claire wasn’t pregnant, just that she wasn’t showing. (Can’t remeber in season 1 when she was living with her boyfriend how pregnant she was, but she was blonde then.) Anyway, clearly at least a few months passed btw when Christian first met Claire (dark Claire) and his death, which presumably was within a week or so of Jack coming to see him. Not sure how long A-L was in Australia. Maybe Christian sobered up and was back and forth between Australia and LA… maybe after he lost his license at the hospital? Very confusing. But apparently Jack suspected or knew of his dad’s infidelity.
Here’s my take on Jack’s “switch.” It seems whatever the ultimate secret is about the Others, when a person hears it, they want to join the cause. It is so big people are willing to die to protect it. I used to think it was just cult programming, but Jack seemed to have turn too quickly for that (that is if he isn’t faking it).
I think whatever the Others are up to, it is to save all of mankind and they will ultimately be proven to be the good guys.
If it is a time-loop gone out of control they may need to kill people that were supposed to die in the crash to set things right. So in thier minds at least, they aren’t murderers. Maybe if they can set things right, time will reset and all the people they killed won’t be dead in the new time-line.
Just a small argument against the notion that Locke’s character is inconsistent: The fact that we were introduced to Locke during one of his mystical and manic high points kind of programmed us to believe that he was some kind of super hero, but his flashbacks showed otherwise. And his future adventures on the island were consistent with his troubled past, which demonstrated that he is a very flawed (if lovable) character. Locke consistently exhibits bursts of manic faith (liver donating, cult dope growing, save the world button pushing, dirty money grabbing) that are inevitably followed by moments of disillusionment and failure. Locke is always scheming, but the results are almost always calamitous.
I have a therory I thought I would throw out here for you all. Could it be possible that there is some kind of cloneing program going on on the island? And that the Jack we saw playing football with Tom is not in fact “our” Jack. It seems like they would not have had enough time to brainwash him in the Clockwork Orange room. Also because when Mikahil says “The John Locke that I knew…” That would seem to indicate that they have met before. But maybe he was talking about a clone of Locke, and that that was the Locke he knew? Could also possibly explain how he knew personal details about all of them. That somehow they all were source DNA to become clones who would overcome thier source imperfections? I could be grasping, but thought I would toss the therory out there.
The writers are making the characters seem quite unnaural by squelching their curiosities and ability to communicate to an absolutely unbelievable degree. I yell at the screen when a character defies all human logic. I do that a lot. You can blame the move to 10PM for the ratings drop, but the characters behaving like jackasses week after week has taken a toll. I have a fear this great program has turned into Dallas on Gilligan’s Island.
As Mr. Friendly would say, “Interesting theory…”, Michael8. 😉
To add to that, Jay and/or Jack were saying that maybe Ben wants Alex to stay away from Carl because they’re siblings. Kind of far fetched to imagine that Danielle would have been carrying twins without knowing it.
BUT it is plausible that the Others are messing with DNA and they used Alex’s DNA to create Carl. Hmm?
I guess if Jack wasn’t on the list, they would want him around-another “good” person. It does seem too quick of a change in attitude though.
“the Locke I knew’ comment threw me too. They do know an awful lot about people..they still never answered the questions about where the first survivors they took are (did they? The kids, the other passengers..)
The defense systems have been there for ages, so the threat from the ‘hostiles’ makes me think that they’re different groups-that have been around for years, way before the 80 days our folks have been there. Also, they’re powerful enough to kill a t-rex or something. Obviously, going over it with a tree was simple-any thinking human could figure that out.
As for Jack, who wouldn’t want to stay w/ the others once they’re not locked up and forced to provide medical care?? I mean, they probably have t.v., good food, couches… 🙂
If, as has been speculated before, Christian Shepherd is not dead and is in fact the mysterious “Jacob” aka “HIM”, head honcho of the Others, is it possible that Jack has been re-introduced to him at the Others’ compound and has learned the “grand design” of the island, and, because his daddy is in charge, is now on board with their plans?
Now that I think of it, “Jack” is a shortened form of “Jacob”…maybe Jack is really Jacob in another time loop future…OUCH! I just hurt my brain!
Forgot to ask this question for anyone who can answer this: weren’t Kate & Sawyer on the original ‘list’? I thought they were told they were. Jack was not, correct? Yet Mikhail told Kate specifically yesterday that she was ‘flawed’. Was this determined after some sort of testing? And, of course, the Others kept Jack (although whether this is at the command of Ben, instead of Jacob, remains to be seen).
BTW, throwing my guess into the ether that Locke, and not Charlie, will be the next one to die. I’m hoping not because of the complexity of his character and great acting by Terry O’Quinn, but I am fearing that he will be given his behavior this week.
Finally, I may be the only person hungering to see more of the others, especially Ben. There is such tension in any of the scenes where MIchael Emerson plays him that any episode with him in it becomes enthralling for that tension alone. With Ben lies the answers!
I’ve always believed that Tom the Other is Jacob. Only because Benry once went to such a degree to deny Tom was the leader of the Others, “oh, he’s nothing, he’s no one.” Thou doth protest too much, me thinks. Of course, the writers can make up anything, anytime they want. Jacob could be Vincent the Dog for all we know. Locke wants to get his hands on the submarine so he can send it to the bottom of the ocean. That’s the ONLY way in and out of this wacky island — under the magnetic curtain that extends into outer space.
forget about the clone… the producers said it gonna be no clone in all Lost story… search on Lospedia.com to read it !!
I dont know exactly why, but i think Locke dont want anybody off this island.. he want to find the submarine to blow it with the C-4 !! He wanna stay on the island
IF YOU WANT ANSWER ABOUT THE CLAIRE/JACK/ANNA-LUCIA/CHRISTIAN TIMELINE.. GO ON LOSTPEDIA.COM .. ITS THE BIBLE OF LOST… YOULL FIND ALL YOUR ANSWER !!
Cuedblue — Jack, Sawyer (James Ford), Hurley (Hugo Reyes), and Kate were on the second “list” of who Michael was supposed to bring. It is not the same as the list of the “good people.”
If there’s one thing we know about the Others, they delight in deception and are expert liars. Both Benry and Mikhail were great deceivers, the former moreso than the latter. The Other Others such as Tom and Bea (Ms Klugh) and Juliet and Goodwin and Ethan seem to be a little less adept. But I guess what I have come to recognize is that we should believe nothing that the Others say unless explicitly shown to be true.
My interpretation of the “the John Locke I knew was pa…” (presumably paralyzed or paraplegic) is that that’s the intel they gathered initially. I don’t think this is a cloning thing.
Have we come to a consensus on whether the Others = DHARMA = Hostiles? Ryan posted something sorting this out last week and the more I discuss it with people the more confused I get.
One more spin on the “time loop” theory, which I think is cool but I hope isn’t true, because it’s a bit of a cop-out… evolution itself is a series of chance happenings that eventally hit just the right sequence. There are a lot of allusions to this, from Desmond’s precognition/”Groundhog Day” flashback and abilities to Sawyer in the bear cage to Hurley winning the lottery. Sometimes the right set of circumstances just happens to fall into place…
I wanted to post as soon as the episode ended, but I am in the East Coast and thought it would not be fair to all the people out there who had to wait two, three or six more hours to find out WHY I was so excited. My heart was racing during the second half of the episode, and my head was spinning. Apparently, Desmond re-lived his time-traveling nightmare only to find out Charlie had died again; and Good-old Desmond saved the day one more time. I agree that this is going to get old very soon. So they need to stop it, avoid it, or reveal the whole truth about it.
Dr. Shepherd Sr. being Claire’s dad was such an old hunch from MOST of us, that it did not add anything to the story. Other than, apparently, confuse some people about the timeline of the story. But I agree that if they are confused, they can find those answers on Lostpedia.com or other site with the specific timelines. However, I was not confused at all. It was clear that Claire was pregnant when Ana Lucia drove Christian around, but the aunt never let him see her; Claire must have been living on her own, right after her boyfriend abandoned her, but just a few days before Flight 815 took off. And we do not know whether or not Claire’s mother ever died.
What I did find interesting about the timeline is that Charlie reading the note Claire wrote says they have been on the island around 80 days now. That means it is around december 12, 2004. and my hope is that we get to see the Losties celebrating Christmas!! They obviously did not think of celebrating Thanksgiving (which they should have, given the fact that they survived a plane crash). Or I wonder if the Others will celebrate it.
BTW, the security perimeter around the barracks was built to keep the Hostiles away. Therefore, the Hostiles and the Others are two different groups. Unless, we have been lied to, and it was just meant to keep the Dharma people away. In Enter 77, Mikhail explained the purge, or war, between Dharma initiative people and the Hostiles. He said all Dharma people were dead. Well, we have seen several skeletons around the island, all wearing some sort of Dharma clothes; the bodies of those people are just lying somewhere. However, the real Henry Gale had been burried right under his balloon. Aside from the Losties and Tailies that have died, Henry is the only other person on the island to have been buried. Another mystery arises: How did the real Henry Gale die? Who was he? Who buried his body?
In any case, I do believe most of the things Mikhail said, other than the obvious lies (not being able to defeat the computer on the chess game, that the communication instruments such as the satellite dish in the Flame did not work for years, the perimenter pylons around the barracks not being active, etc..). What is really interesting is something I read at The Fuselage: Apparently, Mikhail does not react to Danielle as everybody else does. In fact, it seems like she is invisible. I watched both the last two episodes again this morning, and except for one instance (Danielle pressing her riffle against Mikhail’s neck), it does seem like he does not see her or even hear her. Danielle is never ahead or in front of him either. If you pay attention to the dialogue, and assuming she does not exist, the conversations still make sense. That really freaked me out! What if Danielle is Smokey in disguise. Well, if so, Mickhail would know, and it would make sense that he would know when the Losties are talking to him, among them or to Danielle. However, one could ask why she would kidnap Aaron and attempt to trade him for her Alex at the end of season 1? Maybe to confuse the rest of the group? to creat chaos? I do not know. Maybe this is too far-fetched, who knows.
But there is another LITTLE thing. When Mikhail lets the Losties know how much he knows about them (calling each one by their full name) and why they are considered flawed, he uses ONE adjective to chategorize each of the first two people (Locke and Kate), but he uses two when speaking about Sayid. Or is he also talking about Danielle? How could that be if he does not see her. that is where I get confused.
As for next week, I am trying not to be too excited. After all, how Lock ended up paralyzed APPARENTLY does not add anything to the main story. But I will be very excited if we find Mikhail in Locke’s flashback. From what we gathered last night, Mikhail Patchy had met Lock while he was paralyzed. But Mikhail said he’s been on the island for 11 years (and he was recruited by Dharma when he was only 24), and Lock was not in a wheelchair 11 years ago. Well, we will see. Let us be patient.
A few thoughts and a quick theory. First, my theory: Recall in the first 48 days episode when Ana Lucia found an old Army knife from WWII era? Also, if memory serves, similar smaller types of knives and other weopons or items were discovered by our losties in the first season. Then to Ryan’s summary last week, in which it seemed pretty clear that the Others and DHARMA are two separate organizations, with the Others being considered by DHARMA as hostiles. Also recall Benry saying that he has been on this island all his life — the implication being that DHARMA arrived afterward. Thus my theory — The Others are the decendants of what was a secret military outpost in WWII conducting advanced weapons research, or whatever, in a safe and almost undiscoverable location. They built a base, developed a security system, and other technology as part of their research to hide themselves from view, while on a mission “to save the world.” For whatever reason, this group stayed on the island and over the years evolved into a functional society. The rise of nuclear weapons and the cold war maybe changed their mission, maybe not. Maybe they lost contact and their mission became their religion (not literally). Who knows? But they began as a military outpost and evolved into a society that prized it’s detachment from the rest of the world and continued to see themselves as saviors of the world all along.
Then 30-40 years later, here comes DHARMA, bred of late 1960s phsychology and hippie culture, conducting social experiments of all kinds, and finding what they thought was an empty island in the middle of nowhere to do it. The original inhabitants (The Others) see this as an invasion and defend themselves against this perceived threat, discover DHRMA’s “evil” social experiments, comprehend this as something not dissimilar from what they originally came to the island to do back in WWII, they try to rescue those they regard as innocents (children), and a war erupts — which Mickhail specifically said was the case. As far as we know, Desmond is the only living survivor of what was once Dharma. The Others take DHARMA’s facilities and resources for their own use. As far as the Others know, our losties represent the next DHARMA offensive and the fight is reengaged. But they have gotten rusty and cannot go on offense the way they did back in the early days of DHARMA. Some DHARMAnians converted to The Other side during the course of this war (Juliette?), most were killed or driven off, and all of the children that could be rescued, were rescued.
Add to this the conversation with Mikhail from the episode last night (March 14) and I got a creepy feeling that somewhere in all of this is the rebirth of genetic engineering intended to breed perfect humans in terms of intellect, strength, talent, etc. Not sure which side would be doing this, but when Mickhail was talking about why Kate, Sayid and Locke were not on the list because they were flawed, I got the feeling there was something sinister in his words as well.
Now to my thoughts — if Rose, Locke and probably a few other Losties that I’m forgetting have found some sort of healing power on the island (Locke can walk, Rose’s cancer went away), then why is it that Benry’s tumor required an operation? Is the part of the island where our Losties are the healing part of the island for some reason (DHARMA’s research results?)? Is this an inconsistency on the part of the writers and producers (doubtful)? So curious, must be something.
Also, I’ve stopped reading spoilers and looking for advanced info. my guess is the big item in this episode was not Locke, or finding the other’s town, or whatever. Pretty clear to me that it was the revelation of Claire and Jack being siblings. My two cents…
Alot to Digest.
Simply Put. Time loop is still basis, the Eutopian,Perfect world can only be attained when the GroundHog Scenerio is complete.
I think Jack and even Locke were Hypnotized(BrainWashed if you will).
Hysterical Paralysis is not uncomon. And the Mind can “Cure” the Body.
I truly Guessed that Mikal was Toast last week…It was not a Spoiler issue.He knew TOO Much..Just like Ethan did.
I do like the W W 2 Theory that some have had… The Barrier looks like 40’s-50’s Tech.
Hostiles are ANYONE Not Dharma Chosen
All Outsiders Deemed “UnDharma”
That is also why Kids are Valued..Blank Slates.
I/We enjoyed this episode.
The Barrier would have Fried alot of animals …Polar Bears .Boars and such..unless their Sensitive Hearing kept them away… Also was THAT the Freaky Noise heard in first Season. That and Animals running from it??
I don’t think Locke is an Insider, he’s just a True Believer
The fact that he Executed Mikal…
And strange that no one bothered to Thank Sayid for saving their Lives at the Barrier.
Mikal was watching EVERY Move of EVERYONE on Island.
You know he may not be dead afterall…Faked death?…Especially if he Had PreCognition of his “Death”
Peace
Fernando –
I like a lot of what you have to say. The “Sixth Sense”-esque idea that Mikhail can’t see Rousseau is a very inteersting one… I’d have to look into it more and re-watch the episode.
I guess there was no Thanksgiving because many of the main characters are not American. Claire, Charlie, Sayid, and others wouldn’t celebrate Thanksgiving. If there is a Christmas episode I think we may also see that the Others have a motorcycle and Jack perhaps will use it to shoot over the Dharma-logo-emblazoned shark.
Also, for those who have mentioned it, Lostpedia.com does NOT have a particularly precise timeline. Comprehensive, yes, but as of Friday morning there is no indication that Claire Littleton is a child of Christian Shepherd’s, of when in “September 2004” anything happened.
For Eric and Fernando (and what a delight it is to read smart, long, and well-thought out posts!), and the other readers, I have a few questions. Mikhail speaks of a war between the Others and Dharma, which I think is likely enough using the scenarios described above. But if Ben has been on the island his whole life, and assuming no “accelerated aging” type scenario, he’s been there far longer than Dharma. We assume he has contact with the outside world. So how was Dharma able to build to much on the island asnd establish such a presence without the Others immediately stamping them down? Did they just take a “don’t cross this line” approach the way Tom initially posed to the Losties?
How did Juliet get to the island? We can safely assume Ethan was involved, yes? (He was in her lab in Florida.) Ethan is an Other. But I believe that there was some Dharma signage in the “Not in Portland” episode? (Maybe I am misremembering.)
So maybe the Others grabbed Dharma’s subs/transportation system. But then how did Mikhail get to the island eight years earlier?
The shark and presumably the polar bears are linked to Dharma as well (the shark by tattoo). But the Others have been living in the Hydra station (where the sharks were stored).
I just can’t understand why, if the Others are so vicious and so powerful, they would allow the Dharma folks to build things up so extensively only to completely stamp them out and then take over some, but not all, of their stations and equipment. I can’t help but think that the Others are a faction of Dharma that revolted.
And in the meantime… Desmond and Juliet arrived on the island around the same time (3 years ago). Desmond’s arrival maybe had some connection to Mr Widmore and his labs which are maybe connected to Dharma. Juliet clearly had some biotech linkage but presumably was brought to the Others. So are they the same group, or different? Was Kelvin part of Dharma, or an Other? He sure seemed to have some secrets but also spoke of the “Hostiles” and my presumption was always that said Hostiles were the Others.
I’ve heard a lot of theories on this which are all strong, but none definitive… each has a few holes in it.
So wait…quick question wasn’t jack held captive on the other island that kate and sawyer fled from by boat? How did he get back on the main island? was that part of the deal I guess?
Ben’s stitches were infected and Juliet asked Jack to fix it. They brought Jack and Ben back on a boat.
good episode 😀 but I wanna know how Desmond, Locke, Ecko and Charlie are getting out of the hatch before the implosion… Desmond turn the key, the hatch imploded and everybody is out…. its doesnt make sense… I still wait the episode to explain this…
(sorry for the english.. im from Quebec)
WHOOOOO Fernando… your theory about Danielle freak me out to !!!!!!! its so nice !! I always think this girl was an Others.. but she can be the Monster.. that can explain why she disappear so fast.. and why shes not with Kate Locke and Sayid when they discovers Otherville…
I have to watch the episode she appears again with that in mind…
Thank you for that theory.. :D:D its a good one
well… finaly I watch the end of episode ‘Enter 77’ and when Danielle pressing her riffle against Mikhail’s neck she said to sayid ” You have a map.. why are you keeping him alive?” and after that Mikail look sayid and smile… I think he hear her .. so .. maybe shes not the Monster…
lospedia.com have not yet the timeline for Claire/Jack/Christian/Anna…. but wait couple of day.. they work on it im sure..
Dave,
Agree, nice to have a lively and informed discussion of theories. Mine has a ton of holes in it — but I’m willing to bet that the real answer we ultimately get will have some holes as well. Your questions are right on target, and I have no answers, other than to say somehow or other, assuming my theory is correct, DHARMA was able to build on the island before they were obliterated. Or… maybe the DHARMA stations were not built by DHARMA, but were part of the military mission back in WWII. All DHARMA did was find the island and move into already existing facilities. But I agree this is probably too contrived to be the right answer.
I also agree, there’s a lot to suggest that the Others are a rebellious offshoot of DHARMA — but either way, Ben’s existence on the island would still be a mystery since I think it’s reasonable to assume (or conclude maybe) that he was there long before DHARMA. So how can he be a former DHARMAnian?
Regardless of all of this, I feel reasonably sure that there is some Military aspect to all of this and also some connection to WWII, either directly or not. And the whole “good” vs. “bad” people thing seems to me to smack of some sort of “master race” plan. But who knows? At least, we’re getting enough answers now to posit some theories that might actually make some sense. I’ve never bought the supernatural theories, and I’m not sure I buy the time-loop thing either. Like Star Trek, it would be a cop out in my opinion. I hope it’s something more creative than that.
I think Jack is being set-up to play a major leadership role with the others as part of their (or Ben’s) plan too. Don’t know why. Just seems like they are testing him to see how sturdy a character he is. Anyway, can’t wait till the series is over so we can all finally know. That day will be fantastic and awful all at the same time.
JACK GOT A NEW TATTOO… IF YOU LOOK CAREFULLY AT THE END OF THIS EPISODE.. WHEN HE DO THE TOUCHDOWN.. WHE SEE A RED AND BLACK TATTOO… OR SOMETHING.. LOOK LIKE A ROSE…CAN SOMEBODY EXPLAIN THIS ??????
I believe the “Flashes Before Your Eyes” (Feb 14) episode still gives the best explanation about Lost. Some people like Desmond, a few of the Others, Ben, Patchy, and maybe Locke seem to realize that certain things must happen before the Time-Loop will disengage, so that Time can move forward.
This would explain the creation of the “list,” why so much is known about the Losties, and why “fate” directed the Losties to get on the doomed plane. Every effort is being made by Others to try to make the right sequence of events happen, so the Time-Loop will be broken.
I think Locke knew a lot about Flame station (the direction clue on Echo’s stick might have triggered Locke’s faint memory), obviously more than his friends realized.. he’d been there many times before in past loops.
Locke’s actions were direct and forceful.. such as lying about not knowing where the Flame floor hatch was, taking explosives, beating the computer at Chess just to enter 77, pushing Patchy into the force-field fence to kill him. Btw.. Patchy didn’t seem to mind being killed, he knew he’d be back after the next reset of the Time-Loop.
When Patchy told Kate that she wouldn’t “understand,” he meant that she would have no way of comprehending what had happened during the multitude of Time-Loops that had occurred before. And he really had no patience to give her the short version and then spend hours answering all the questions that were sure to come up. I’m just surprised that Patchy waited for Locke to push him into the fence, rather than running in by himself (unless he needed to turn Locke into murderer).
A question for Ryan..
If someone unfamiliar with the show asked you what was Lost all about, wouldn’t “Flashes Before Your Eyes” be the beginning of the explanation?