I think Jen was about ready to turn off the television when Sawyer started ogling Kate. But it was worth hanging on for the last two minutes. So, the Others are neither as isolated nor as infallible as they first appeared, Alex resurfaces with a tantalizing link with the mysterious Karl, we see a darker side to Sun while Jin’s character grows richer, and Ben controls and sees everything but still needs something from our survivors. We still haven’t seen much of the grand plan, but it’s clear as ever there is one.
I couldn’t resist watching the Red Sox scene a few times. Definitely one of the high points of the entire series. It was an important grounding moment in the positioning of the island and the story in the real world, but still done cleverly and with an emotional wallop. (Matthew Fox is surprising us this season.) It seems almost too convenient, of course, given Jack’s father’s fondness for the Red Sox line, but I’ll take it. What was curious to me was how Ben seemed somewhat detached from the significance of what he was reporting. From saying, “Your fellow Americans” to appearing completely unaware of the cultural significance of the Red Sox win, I’m inclined to believe him when he says he’s lived his whole life on the island. He’s tuned into the outside world, but isn’t a part of it.
The re-programming seems to be working on Jack, too. From giving him a glimmer of hope in the outside world, to relenting in his need to know and control everything, I fear that he just might be turned, and that he (and not Sawyer and Kate) is the one survivor the Others want the most. Considering what they got Michael to do, one has to wonder just what they’re hoping he’ll do for them.
Something is definitely up with Kate. The tough, murderous fugitive is suddenly dazed and mousy? Jen’s convinced she’s up to something, and has been ever since she got caught in the jungle and ended up being the perfect tool to disarm Jack and Sawyer. And indeed, again, Kate’s the reason Sawyer drops the gun. Then again, we’re given the impression that Sawyer was just sizing them up, and wasn’t aiming for a full-scale confrontation just then. And just as Jack’s being slowly reprogrammed in The Hydra, it seems putting Kate in a dress is part of a larger plan to subjugate her. Something happened between breakfast on the beach and the cage, and it just might have been enough to break her.
Speaking of tough characters that suddenly seem impotent, just where was Sayid’s military training in coming up with his ambush plan? While I was glad to see more of our friends (after the season premiere was limited to the three captives), it seemed the entire subplot with Sayid, Jin and Sun felt wasted, just to mirror the “Sun betrays Jin†flashback in the present.
But, Sun has now joined the ranks of killers among the survivors, and interestingly, Colleen met her end the same way Libby and Shannon did. (And they’re all blondes, Jen notes.) We also now know Jin’s English comprehension is improving, and that the Others — for all their resources — really wanted that boat.
As for the flashback? The “glass ballerina” referenced in the title shows us, I guess, that Sun’s sense of honor is not as strong as Jin’s — particularly as we learn that, so far, Jin has not killed for his father in law. The “did they or didn’t they” question was answered, further putting Sun in the “bad people†camp, and putting the question of paternity front and center. I liked how the “who knows what†map got twisted into knots — Jin has no idea why Jae was targeted, nor that Sun was unfaithful. And do Mr. Paik or Sun know that Jin didn’t kill Jae?
Well, I think he didn’t, anyway. I think the pearl necklace means suicide. Jen thinks we may learn otherwise later.
It was good to see Alex again, and further evidence that she’s not particularly loyal. That she’s concerned about Karl suggests that he’s indeed an outsider or being punished in some way, and not a plant to mess with Sawyer. They both seem to be the youngest Others around, which makes me wonder if Karl has a backstory similar to Alex’s.
Speaking of prisoners, who were the other rock movers? Bad Others like Karl? Or the other Others, the burlap-sack wearing, kid stealing, silent walking variety. Although we’ve learned that the Others like to put on a show, I’m even more convinced now there’s another group out there. Stealing kids from the Tailies certainly wasn’t among the instructions Ben gave to Goodwin.
And I guess the ‘shippers were thrilled to see “The Kiss,” though once again it was just a ploy. The conversation back at the cages, though, shows that Kate and Sawyer have clear kinship in the troublemaking department, and that there’ll indeed probably be a romantic connection down the line — just as it seems the Others want it.
Notes and Notions:
- The brief scene where Sawyer smirks over spotting two Others having a domestic moment (Colleen kisses Danny goodbye) was a nice touch. Knowing that the Others had soft spots was probably what emboldened Sawyer to stir things up later.
- Sayid’s line about requiring two prisoners, using one to control the other, certainly illustrates a lot of the tactics we’ve seen throughout “LOST.”
- Benjamin Linus? Given the show’s obsession with meaningful names, this one’s a mystery. Anagram? A combination of historical or fictional characters?
- We got another datapoint in the “who knows Sawyer’s real name†set (following Michael’s confusion over the Others’ list). So Kate didn’t know? Guess our survivors aren’t as chatty as we sometimes think (or hope).
- Numbers: Jae Lee’s apartment number was 1516. But why did the elevator say “2â€?
- Locations: They returned to The Contemporary Museum gallery inside the First Hawaiian Center for Mr. Paik’s office, but it was definitely set up differently — they even left some of the gallery artwork in place. Jae’s funeral was at the pagoda at Honolulu Memorial Park in Nuuanu. The rock moving worksite looked like the lychee farm in Mililani Mauka. Sun’s childhood home looked a bit like Susan Lloyd’s house in Australia, didn’t it?
Links:
- “The Glass Ballerina” discussion at TheFuselage.com and Lost-Forum.com
The episode was really good. That was the best sun/jin flashback yet. Ben said he had been born on the island (he had to have been on the island before Dharma was) Sun poped a cap in an other. Sawyer had some funny lines. Jack gets offered a way off the island. Good episode. The preview for next week looks crazy
::I’m HIUGE Lost fanboy but I never posted/submitted brfore: one quick thing: did it seem like Sun pushed Jae off the balcony? Thanks for the momentary thought.
Kamsahamnida
Brilliant episode.
Am I the only one to find the fact that Benry was born on the island relevant? I mean, he must be 40 years old at least, and the Dharma Initiative didn’t start until the 70s. That means there were people on the island before Dharma installed their bases!
A couple of things that Lindelof & Cuse confirmed on the official podcast. Yes, there are indeed two “factions” of Others. And yes, Karl is an other and not a plant.
Ryan — I think the “burlap-sack-wearing Others” and the “other Others” are one and the same. The sack-wearin’, kid-stealin’ sort left a list at the Tailies campsite with all their names and descriptions. Exactly the type of list Goodwin was instructed to make.
I am really intrigued by all the apparent dissention within the ranks of the Others. Ben and Juliet clearly have a history and are not quite on the same page. Danny and Colleen clearly are in sync with Benry. Alex and Karl? Well, Alex is part of the Others… they took her with them to nab Kate in the woods. Karl may indeed be another captive who Alex is interested in/sympathetic too, perhaps in the way that she is sympathetic to Claire, Michael, and Kate. (Though the exchange with Kate may be a set-up.) Karl may be an Other. It’s quite unclear.
What is clear to me is that there is something going on with the Others. Sawyer and Kate are tuned into it, how many of them (Benry, Juliet, Goodwin, Ethan, and a few others notably excepted) seem more mesmerized and less like truly prepared folks who are ready for a fight if needed.
It will be interesting to see how the Danny/Jin and Sun dynamic plays out now that Sun killed his wife/partner. Also, I don’t think Sun ever learned that Charlie — not the Others — nabbed her in the garden… I think her overreaction is more defensible when you consider her point of view.
Loved the Red Sox shout-out as a Bostonian (as well as Jack’s incredulous initial response).
Two other big questions I’m hoping to learn more about:
– Who the heck are the people on the chain gang? Low-level Others? Another group of stranded people? What are they doing? It almost looks like an archaeological dig.
– HENRY HAS BEEN ON THE ISLAND HIS WHOLE LIFE? Henry looks to be in his mid 40s to early 50s. The show is in 2004. The Dharma initiative videos are date-stamped 1980. So, either Henry predates Dharma (and was part of an indigenous people, and Dharma is “the bad guys,” OR there’s some weird aging process going on where the Others age faster than normal people… which might explain their need for all the children on the island… and explain why Alex appears to be close to what her age would be if she was Rousseau’s child. Maybe those vaccines do help, and people born off the island have immunity to its aging process? I know it’s far-fetched, but so are polar bears and clouds of black smoke.
Also eagerly awaiting Locke/Desmond/Eko/Charlie/Hurley returning, and the post-Hatch aftermath. Guess Des ain’t dead…
Also… could the whole “chain gang” thing with Sawyer and Kate be part of a bigger Dharma-like experiment (as with the Pearl)?
Reminds me of a classic psych experiment from undergrad days by Zimbardo. He’s even got a web site. Check it out, and keep in mind the “Skinner cages” that Sawyer and Kate are in and the Pavlovian conditioning they and Jack are being subjected to.
http://www.prisonexp.org/
Benjamin: “The right hand of God”
Linus: “Flaxen Haired”
~Take from that what you will.
Sawyer: “Woodsman”
James: “Supplanter”
Supplanter: ” 1.to take the place of (another), as through force, scheming, strategy, or the like.
2. to replace (one thing) by something else”
ie, Jack, The original Sawyer, Sheriff of the guns etc.
Just a note – I’m not sure we can assume Sun is the murderer of Colleen yet. I think that Colleen is injured badly, but not dead yet. My guess? A set up for the others to need Jack to try and save her later on…
JLSK
Quick theory about Sun’s baby: if it comes out bald, it must be Jae Lee’s. 🙂
“the Others — for all their resources — really wanted that boat.”
I think it’s not so much that the Others wanted the boat, but more that they didn’t want our survivors to have the boat. Benry mentioned that the survivors would be able to find where they are easier with a boat, so I think stealing the boat was just a control thing.
I agree with the point made above re: Sun’s ability to kill. I think that before she came on the island, she would not have been the killing type, but after being “kidnapped” by the Others (really Charlie, but she doesn’t know that), it didn’t surprise me at all that she shot Colleen. Sun is no dummy and she can take care of herself.
I am NOT enjoying this story line. And I hate that Sun was unfaithful. I’m in a total snit this year. They had better have a really satisfactory ending to this pod because I’ve gotten very attached to our Losties and I don’t like seeing them tortured.
That said – Ryan and Jen – any chance you’d do a wrap-up podcast on the first six episodes? We MISS YOU!!!
Here’s a question: If Alex really is Danielle’s daughter, why does she seem to be going against the Others? Here is my line of thought: According to Danielle, they took Alex when she was a baby. If Alex was raised with the Others, wouldn’t her loyalties lie with them–like they are her parents or something? (of course, she could just be going through a teen rebellion, I suppose). There are much meatier things going on in this episode, but that is something that has been bothering me about Alex for a while.
I loved this episode. I always really enjoy the Sun/Jin ones. Whoo hoo!
I really enjoyed this episode. After the last episode I was desperate to engage with some none Jack/Sawyer/Kate characters, and I really liked their handling of Ben in this episode.
Most of my observations have already been mentioned here, though I thought I spotted another Lord of the Flies reference (though obviously with the very setting of a programme like Lost there are always going to be many things that could be seen as LOTF references).
When I saw Sun in the sailboat at night, and saw that the attack was coming to the boat the phrase ‘Beast from Water’ popped into my head. This is a chapter heading in LOTF referring to the boys’ fears of where the beast is from. I wondered if there would be a consequentially be a ‘Beast from Air’, the next chapter title which refers to the dead parachutist they mistake to be the beast, and as I wondered this Jae fell onto Jin’s car. A rather loose reference if intentional, but the speed with which the images followed each other drew it to my mind. And certainly it would be an appropriate reference as far as the development of Sun’s character in this episode, and the ‘darkness of man’s heart’ theme of LOTF.
I have a couple of thoughts/questions:
1) How did the others get on the sailboat? If they walked by beach/dock then Sayid and Jin would have seen them. If they took their own boat there would have been more than one boat fleeing the dock after the shootout. If they swam they would’ve been dripping wet, yet all were dry.
2) This one is hard to explain: At the end of season two Kelvin Inman explains that he voluntarily joined the Dharma Initiative and went to serve on this island. If he was reporting to anyone within the official Dharma Initiative then Benry would’ve have known about the arrival of Desmond and a sailboat wouldn’t he? Benry and the gang may use many of Dharma’s resources (stations, canteens, etc.) but it seems to me that they are not the actual/original Dharma Initiative.
Any thoughts???
Hey.
I do not think Sun was unfaithful. She was lying in bed with the other guy but she clearly says to him “I can’t do this”. And I think she was honest when she told Jin about her pregnancy and said “I have never been with another man”. However, there is the thing when Sayid asks Sun “What do you know about lying?” Maybe she has been deciving all of us. In that case, that would break my heart: I can’t stand unfaithfulness.
Jason, I don’t think Sun pushed Jae. I still think it was suicide. Though Jen notes that Mr. Paik knows that Jin has had problems killing before… what if he sent a backup? Wouldn’t explain the pearls, though. I think, basically, Jae was proud and in love, and just couldn’t live with himself.
Aitor, thanks for the official word from the podcast that there are, indeed, two groups of Others out there. So we’re going to need a name for the other Others eventually. Didn’t Kelvin call them “hostiles”?
Rebecca, the “Lord of the Flies” parallels are interesting. Good catch!
Brian, good point about the unwet crowd of Others taking over that boat. Either Sayid and Jin are deaf and blind (though they were looking inland), or they got out there some other way. I am sure, though, that Ben, Juliet, Colleen, Danny, and the gang are not the DHARMA Initiative, especially after Juliet’s conversation with Jack last week. That Ben predates DHARMA on the island is very intriguing.
Jose, I’m pretty sure Sun was unfaithful. She was saying she “can’t do this” anymore, not right then. Remember, Mr. Paik showed up moments later. It seems unlikely he would’ve found them the very moment they were about to get it on. It seems he knew she had been having an affair for some time.
Brian,
I think the Others slipped past Sayid and Jin. They are stealthily quiet, to the point that the only time they have ever been picked up while in movement was at the end of last season, when Kate saw (and shot and killed) one of them. So I think they could sneak past Sayid and Jin in the dark without a problem.
Also, I agree w/ Ryan that Dharma and the Others are NOT the same. I wrote a bit on this in last week’s thread. I had been under the assumption that the Others were some renegade fraction of Dharma (escaped subjects? disgruntled Dharmites? Kelvin and Desmond refer to the “Hostiles”), but Benry’s proclamation that he has been on the island his “whole life” suggests:
1) a very loose metaphor/exaggeration
2) an advanced aging process in the Others
3) a lie (SO unlike him ;P )
4) Absolutely no relationship between them, and the Dharma folks upset their utopian lifestyle and they truly are “the good guys.”
I too wondered about the fact that the Others managed to board the boat without being noticed.
I’m taking a long shot here, but someone mentioned on The Fuselage that when Colleen whispers to Pickett/Danny, she mentions the “Galaga”. I’ve rewatched that bit a couple of times and she seems to use that word, although I haven’t been able to get the whole sentence. My guess is that the Galaga is some sort of boat/submarine/vehicle and they boarded the boat from there. That could also explain why Goodwyn and Ethan arrived so quickly at the crash sites (in an hour).
If there is indeed a “Galaga”, I’m curious to find out why they chose that name 🙂
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galaga
OK…this is really weird. I did a google search for “Linus Benjamin” and a sponsored link was “Hanso Adoptions”
http://www.hansoadoptions.org/?gclid=CKGB5PLt9IcCFRxmGgodk2soxA
There is a box to enter your email and name to get “special information”.
When I follow the instructions, this is what I received in my inbox:
Hello Avery,
Welcome to Hanso Adoptions, “The Place Where Families Meet.”
Thank you for electing to get the latest news from HansoAdoptions and other worthwhile causes at The Hanso Foundation.
We know that together, we will change the world.
As a reward for membership, our readers will be given firstconsideration should any special opportunities arise.
You can learn more about the “Lost Keys to Longer Life” here:
http://www.hansoadoptions.org/article-11.html
Thank you for your commitment to completeness.
Namaste, Art K.Hanso Adoptions
PO Box 127467 Fort Collins CO 80527
Here is the article the above link shows:
Lost Key to Longer Life?
What is the key to longer life?
At Hanso Adoptions, we seek to improve life in every conceivable way.
One of the most sought after aspects of better living, is long life. Long life provides opportunities for continued growth, allows for more shared experiences, and gives people a greater sense of fulfillment.
For many years, our scientists have searched for the “key” to long life. Our recent discoveries are already benefiting countless individuals participating in our off-site research.
Length of life is shaped by genetics, diet, exercise, and environment. But, long life does not hinge solely on these factors.
In some cases, seemingly healthy people pass away without warning. Others who continually abuse their bodies have achieved many years of life and good health.
What other factors increase lifespan?
Anomalies often reveal rare differences in the factors of people’s lives. Sometimes the anomaly is a new factor that is not typically inherent.
As Hanso research continues to refine all understanding of these anomalies, more people will experience the benefits of long life.
At Hanso Adoptions, we are working to improve your life. Let us show you your new family. You will not find greater happiness.
Namaste
OK…now I get it!!!!! Not really, just kidding.
Avery,
I just looked up what you said, and if you click on the blank space at the bottom of the page next to 2006, it brings up a Dharma symbol with a Yin/Yang in the middle of it, only there are babies making its shape.
Also, one letter on two different pages stands out among the black letters. One page has a red “x” and another has a red “o”. Could be nothing, but it just seems too deliberate, especially looking at the source code.
OK; my husband and i are big fans, but we have found the first two episodes of this season to be disappointing. We really want to see all of our old friends. We feel like there are too many dropped story lines. Producers, sponsers, are you reading? We may stop watching this season: you are boring and confusing us!
Some random thoughts on this week’s episode.
– Colleen warns Jin that the Others will “turn nasty” (can’t remember the exact wording) if Jin shoots her. Short of torturing and killing the Losties, I wonder what this could mean.
– Sun understands more English than anyone (including Jin) had imagined. Does he also knows about Jin’s adultery? Similar to previous seasons, Sun and Jin’s relationship is only cemented by the fear of being seperated rather than the love for each other.
– I had assumed Sayid’s rescue mission was the only involvement the other Losties would have this season (thought they would get captured and caged too by the Others). It now seems impossible for the story not to partly focus on Sayid & co returning to camp and hatching a new plan with bruised and battered Locke, Ecko and Desmond.
– Interesting bit of jealous tension between Juliet and the other blonde (not sure of her name), seemingly over Ben. The Others are in no way portrayed as an idyllic, trouble-free community. Makes it all the easier to portray a rebellion by the Losties I suppose 😉
All in all another interesting, well-crafted episode.
Ok…after thinking about everything, and re-reading the Hanso adoption article, here is my theory:
I think some of the Oceanic passengers, Jack especially, were born on the island, as part of some genetic experiment. I think maybe there is some ‘twinning’ involved as well. Now they are interested in retrieving data regarding ‘longevity’ and lifespans from these subjects. I think this will play into the whole Jack and Claire sibling story as well….although I’m not sure how.
I did see the Dharma logo with the baby ‘ying-yang’ symbol as well….very strange!
Kate is forced to wear a thin sexy dress (female attire), put in a cage close to Sawyer (so they could talk, but not allow touching each other), and then forced into performing punishing labor in a way so that Sawyer could easily keep his (growing lustful) eyes on her. Finally, Sawyer is forced to choose between an attempt to gain his freedom or save Kate’s life. Hmmm… obviously the goal is to emotionally bond and then mate these two lab subjects. Don’t forget, Benry told Kate at their breakfast that the next 2 weeks would be very difficult for her.
What does it all mean? It’s got to be a by-the-book procedure by the Others try to produce another BABY on the island. Watch out Sun!
how about this? You mentioned Benjamin Linus possibly being an anagram like ethan rom:
http://www.ssynth.co.uk/~gay/cgi-bin/nph-an?line=Benjamin+Linus&words=6&dict=antworthp&doai=on
http://hydrastation.com/hydra/
Not very interesting, but a site exists. My apologies if this is not news.
So strange that Hanso Adoption Website! If you click on our clients it goes to a law website and this is what it says. The Hanso Corp. bought Oceanic?? It connects the island with the airline that crashed on it.
http://www.mackthompsonlaw.com
Mack Thompson Law
Mack Thompson Sues The Hanso Foundation! Mack is proud to finally notify the public that he has formally filed suit againt The Hanso Foundation following the foundation’s acquisition of Oceanic Airlines. The lawsuit has been filed against the HansoAir subdivision in the State of California. This lawsuit is the culmination of several years of suspicion surrounding the activities at The Hanso Foundation.
Mack Thompson Law finds this case very important to the people and will release any information we can to the public as it is available. At this time the courts have limited the information that will be released to the public. This is the result of the legal team at Hanso and our legal team will fight this decision. We can release the following information.
On September 29, 2006, our legal team filed a civil suit against a subsidiary of The Hanso Foundation, HansoAir, in the Second District Appellate Court of California. Proceedings will take place in Division Three courts in Los Angeles. You may recall that Los Angeles was to be the destination of Oceanic Airlines Flight 815, a jet liner utilizing a test version of the Artificial Intelligence Piloting System (AIPS) supplied by The hanso Foundation.
Shortly after Oceanic Airlines went backrupt the company was bought out by The Hanso Foundation. Oceanic Airlines and its employees avoided Chapter 11 bankruptcy with the acquisition but many employees found themselves unemployed when the dust settled. Mack Thompson Law has made a connection between each employee terminated and the events surrounding the crash of Flight 815. The allegation put forth is that HansoAir wrongfully terminated over 200 employees due to their possible knowledge of illegal, immoral, and unethical activities committed by The Hanso Foundation.
Oh man. Check out this website supposedly HansoAir. It talks about what the ‘real world’ thinks happened to flight 815 including a map.
http://www.hansoair.org/oceanic.html
I don’t think Colleen is dead.
Sun obviously was unhappy in her marriage, and her relationship with Jae was getting serious, but when Jae kisses her in bed she says “I can’t”, not “I can’t any more”. She is clearly talking about sex. She can’t quite cross that line, as she still loves her husband.
Ben and group did not know about the sailboat and hene did not know about Desmond. This would indicate 1) they do not have a video feed to the Swan station and 2) they either do not know about Kelvin or assume he’s still pushing the button. Either way, they do not know about Desmond because he’s the one who brought the sailboat. So, if they don’t know about Desmond or Kelvin, why would they not be concerned about pushing the button in the Swan station? And who’s sending the Swan station supplies?
how come no one is mentionning Desmond’s girlfriend from the previous season? didn’t we see her acknowledging his whearabouts on the island?
This is probably old news for most folks– but when you check out the “Hanso Foundation” Web site and see the message from Alvar, then click the right side of your cursor and go to “play,” there is a voice talking about one side winning a battle, but noting it’s only a battle– then saying that the person (whether Alvar or his nemesis Mittelverk??) plans to save humanity via a virus…..
Any thoughts are welcome!
And Cher, you’re right… no reference back to Desmond’s girlfriend and that plane, eh?!
In ABC’s Official LOST Podcast of 10/9, the writers stated that Karl is definitely an “Other” and “legitimately” not a plant and was “legitimately” trying to escape. We will find out within the first 6 episodes why he was in the cage and why he was trying to escape.
Scott in Brentwood, CA, you made an excellent point (above) that Benry doesn’t know about Desmond (hmm). The only answer is.. Benry’s group and the Others are different and are probably afraid or at odds with each other. (Remember when Benry said that HIS people are the “good guys”). Benry’s group is living and hiding in relative luxury, and the Others are walking around in rags with with a few kids they have kidnapped.
So who are the whisperers in the jungle? My guess is that it’s the Others trying to survive after somethiing went terribly wrong with the experiments. This could explain the “numbers” too.. another experiment gone bad. Comments anyone?
Just a quick thought that goes with some of the responses here already…
I think that Jae was murdered, and that it was a test to see if Jin would kill for him or not. Too much of a coincidence Jae would almost beg for his life, only to jump himself moments later. The pearls were a total “hint” to Jin about the cheating Sun.
I agree that the others are pushing for a “hook-up” b/w Saywer and Kate….as well, I may have missed it in the previous post (my apologies) but what happened to the blood tests for Kate and Jack?????
Great posts, great site….love to check in and see what everyones thoughts are….I always learn lots….
cheers….
Benjamin and Linus are also Peanuts characters…
The confirmation e-mail for Hanso Adoptions came from the address .
Yay. More mythology.
Great guys to read you all digging secret. It make me like the show a bit more.
But man, I hate these scene of violence!!! How can anyone do not complain about this hate that perspire from the ohters! It has nothing to do with the spirit of the show. I’m disgusted by the hate, the violence,the hypocrisie of the caractere.This is not our show.
I’m disgusted and about to drop this show that does not go to the direction i liked in the show. Of course the story is complicated, but keep your gun down, put your hate away, take the violence out. Their are nice way to make a show clever. the choose now is simply dumb, stupid, makes me puke of hate.